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  • Time to Trade Amir Johnson

    Amir Johnson may be the heart for this team; however I still think he needs to be traded along with an expiring to secure a future PF for us. As much as I like Amir, I think for the team to move forward, we need someone who fits the team on the long term at the PF for us. It's either Amir goes or Hansborough and seeing how Hansborough played in our last few games, I say we can still keep him at least for this season.

    Two Trades
    1) Toronto out: Amir Johnson, Landry Fields, Bebe, 2015 1st round pick, 2015 2nd round picks
    Toronto in: Greg Monroe, Jodie Meeks, Joel Anthony

    Why Raptors: We get a decent PF/C in Monroe who will play well with Valanciunas along with a third SG in Meeks in case Lou Will or Vazquez gets injured. Both are huge upgrades over Amir and Landry. Joel Anthony is a decent backup C, we can waive Stiesma and sign a third string PG. Although for this trade to work, we might have to give Pistons few picks.

    Why Pistons: The Pistons are look for a rebuild, they just lost Josh Smith and will probably lose Monroe (FA in the summer), they have a young C in Drummond and a nice backcourt in Jennings and KCP. Amir is a veteran and was originally a Pistons during the 04 era, he would love a comeback for the Pistons and possibly retire as a Pistons.

    2) Toronto out: Amir Johnson, Demar DeRozan
    Toronto in: Victor Oladipo, Channing Frye, Aaron Gordan, Orlando's 1st round pick (2014 - lottery protected)

    Why Raptors: The Raptors ship out two starters for a future allstar in Oladipo an Aaron Gordan. Both are young including a Top 10 pick in the upcoming draft. I like Oladipo's game and see him as a better version of Jamal Crawford. Gordan is struggling this season but will have a better career in the future as our future PF. I see him having a better career than David Lee at least. Channing Frye is a great backup C for us. Our core of Lowry-Oladipo-Ross-Gordan-Valanciunas looks great with Lou Will and James Johnson and 2Pat as our primary backups going forward. Losing DeRozan may hurt but his trade value isn't at an all time high now so might as well trade him now before he gets Vince's leg problem in the near future.

    Why Magic: The Magic acquire a bonafide allstar in DeRozan who will immediately start for this team along with Amir Johnson going forward. They may make a push for a playoff birth either this year or the next.

  • #2
    tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    Amir Johnson may be the heart for this team; however I still think he needs to be traded along with an expiring to secure a future PF for us. As much as I like Amir, I think for the team to move forward, we need someone who fits the team on the long term at the PF for us. It's either Amir goes or Hansborough and seeing how Hansborough played in our last few games, I say we can still keep him at least for this season.

    Two Trades
    1) Toronto out: Amir Johnson, Landry Fields, Bebe, 2015 1st round pick, 2015 2nd round picks
    Toronto in: Greg Monroe, Jodie Meeks, Joel Anthony

    Why Raptors: We get a decent PF/C in Monroe who will play well with Valanciunas along with a third SG in Meeks in case Lou Will or Vazquez gets injured. Both are huge upgrades over Amir and Landry. Joel Anthony is a decent backup C, we can waive Stiesma and sign a third string PG. Although for this trade to work, we might have to give Pistons few picks.

    Why Pistons: The Pistons are look for a rebuild, they just lost Josh Smith and will probably lose Monroe (FA in the summer), they have a young C in Drummond and a nice backcourt in Jennings and KCP. Amir is a veteran and was originally a Pistons during the 04 era, he would love a comeback for the Pistons and possibly retire as a Pistons.

    2) Toronto out: Amir Johnson, Demar DeRozan
    Toronto in: Victor Oladipo, Channing Frye, Aaron Gordan, Orlando's 1st round pick (2014 - lottery protected)

    Why Raptors: The Raptors ship out two starters for a future allstar in Oladipo an Aaron Gordan. Both are young including a Top 10 pick in the upcoming draft. I like Oladipo's game and see him as a better version of Jamal Crawford. Gordan is struggling this season but will have a better career in the future as our future PF. I see him having a better career than David Lee at least. Channing Frye is a great backup C for us. Our core of Lowry-Oladipo-Ross-Gordan-Valanciunas looks great with Lou Will and James Johnson and 2Pat as our primary backups going forward. Losing DeRozan may hurt but his trade value isn't at an all time high now so might as well trade him now before he gets Vince's leg problem in the near future.

    Why Magic: The Magic acquire a bonafide allstar in DeRozan who will immediately start for this team along with Amir Johnson going forward. They may make a push for a playoff birth either this year or the next.
    Detroit is terrible for Toronto. A rental without bird right + garbage for picks and a player whose bird rights they have

    Orlando deal us terrible for Orlando. They give up multiple highly drafted players + picks for another Tobias Harris in Demar and a UFA in Amir when all they want is to reach the playoffs this year or another lottery pick

    Comment


    • #3
      So in short; break up the core that lasted through those salad years where a 20 win season was considered an accomplishment in building, while dismantling the heart and soul of the team with them 2 starters?

      OK I'll play...

      Amir and DeMar are both hurt, albeit amir still plays with what some might say a bad wheel.

      You really have no sense of what is really going on here.

      If you think Greg monroe, a natural yet immature, under - developed center will suffice for a back up PF in a smaller typed lineup, then you are out of your mind.

      Amir Johnson and an injured DeMar derozan are not the problem with this team.

      The problem is the fools gold 3pt line, and how frequently players like Vasquez and T Ross attempt to rely on it.

      Well that and the rebounding.

      It is in my opinion that Amir however should take a decreased role. Either rested minutes or coming off the bench. 2Pat is really spacing the floor and JJ can defend anyone even that guy in Cleveland. This opinon is solely based on health status and not of effort.

      Oh yeah, and if you are ready to discredit Demar's work ethic and training while basing your trade proposal on probability analysis, then you really don't know what this team embodies, you don't know how good the training staff is, you don't know how cohesive a unit this team really is.

      No one on this team will be traded before the end of season, because when the recipe works, gms tend not to fuck with it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh no,, we have Masai Ujiri, one of the best GM for the century. Greg Monroe a C, no he's a natural PF in a C body, out of rotation. You can DeMar DeRozan a Tobias Harris clone. DeRozan will have a better career than Vince Carter book it. Amir is a great backup PF, as of now, he's better than Aaron Gordan.

        Comment


        • #5
          Nope! First deal is truly, truly awful.

          Second deal Orlando would hang up the phone.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

          Comment


          • #6
            A few things. I don't think any team will trade for Monroe because as people have said, it is a rental and nobody knows if he would just leave in free agency. I also don't think that Orlando would make the trade you proposed as it is a lot for them to give up. While I like DD, he is not worth Dipo and Gordon. shan2on seems to have an issue with getting rid of someone who works hard, but Gordon and Dipo were drafted because they work really hard along with their terrific defense and athleticism. I say that DD is not worth those players because Amir may be seen as a rental like Monroe, as he is an UFA in the off-season. I like a lot of the players involved in the trades (Monroe, Dipo, Gordon), I just cant see a way of getting them mid-season. (also not sure about getting Gordon while he is injured)

            Semi-related: the 3 pt line is not fools gold. It is a MUCH more efficient shots than the long 2's which DD takes a lot of.

            Comment


            • #7
              shan2on wrote: View Post
              So in short; break up the core that lasted through those salad years where a 20 win season was considered an accomplishment in building, while dismantling the heart and soul of the team with them 2 starters?

              OK I'll play...

              Amir and DeMar are both hurt, albeit amir still plays with what some might say a bad wheel.

              You really have no sense of what is really going on here.

              If you think Greg monroe, a natural yet immature, under - developed center will suffice for a back up PF in a smaller typed lineup, then you are out of your mind.

              Amir Johnson and an injured DeMar derozan are not the problem with this team.

              The problem is the fools gold 3pt line, and how frequently players like Vasquez and T Ross attempt to rely on it.

              Well that and the rebounding.

              It is in my opinion that Amir however should take a decreased role. Either rested minutes or coming off the bench. 2Pat is really spacing the floor and JJ can defend anyone even that guy in Cleveland. This opinon is solely based on health status and not of effort.

              Oh yeah, and if you are ready to discredit Demar's work ethic and training while basing your trade proposal on probability analysis, then you really don't know what this team embodies, you don't know how good the training staff is, you don't know how cohesive a unit this team really is.

              No one on this team will be traded before the end of season, because when the recipe works, gms tend not to fuck with it.
              Most of these clucks on the this board have never even played competitive sports at a high level. Ever. You can see it in the way they write and make assumptions based off their stats course at York.
              Most everything has to go right in a given year to win it. Players having career years, everyone in the room liking each other, different players stepping up to help win games and bounces going your way almost every time.
              The raps are having that kind of year ....and as you say.. why you fuck with it.
              There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
              - TGO

              Comment


              • #8
                You actually believe the "everyone in the room liking each other" bs? Players on winning teams usually put their differences aside for the teams benefit. Don't have to look further than the 3 time champ Shaq/Kobe teams.
                If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                Comment


                • #9
                  3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                  You actually believe the "everyone in the room liking each other" bs? Players on winning teams usually put their differences aside for the teams benefit. Don't have to look further than the 3 time champ Shaq/Kobe teams.
                  It's not complete BS but I see your point. You can't have a cancer like Lance Stephenson or Josh Smith or Bynum stinking up your locker room. On the other hand, like Jalen Rose says, it's a lot easier for players to get a long when a team is winning.

                  If the Raptors sucked, I'm sure bench guys like Lou, 2Pat and Hansbrough would start to get salty about their minutes.
                  Last edited by bryan colangelo; Fri Jan 2, 2015, 12:10 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                    You actually believe the "everyone in the room liking each other" bs? Players on winning teams usually put their differences aside for the teams benefit. Don't have to look further than the 3 time champ Shaq/Kobe teams.
                    Thank you for stepping up and reinforcing my point of people who have NEVER played a minute of high level competitive sports throwing out statements like it doesn't matter if the the guys in the room don't get along. It matters. A lot.
                    There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                    - TGO

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                      Thank you for stepping up and reinforcing my point of people who have NEVER played a minute of high level competitive sports throwing out statements like it doesn't matter if the the guys in the room don't get along. It matters. A lot.
                      so then what happened with the raptors last season? GV, hayes, salmons, patterson had some giant orgy with the raptors team the night they arrived, which made everyone like each other immediately and thats how the wins started pumping out?

                      i'm on the side that wins create chemistry, not the other way around.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        iblastoff wrote: View Post
                        so then what happened with the raptors last season? GV, hayes, salmons, patterson had some giant orgy with the raptors team the night they arrived, which made everyone like each other immediately and thats how the wins started pumping out?

                        i'm on the side that wins create chemistry, not the other way around.
                        That team went what.. 42 and 22 over the course of the year. Something clicked for the group. So much so that they all came back save for Salmons. If team chemistry is so easy to create why doesn't every team have it ?
                        Teams that have it and have everything go right for them in a given year have a far higher chance to win than those who are playing for cheques. Those guys in San Antonio... Duncan / Parker / Ginobili.. and the Raps rise from the dead last year are a pretty compelling case for chemistry creates winners.
                        There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                        - TGO

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                          Thank you for stepping up and reinforcing my point of people who have NEVER played a minute of high level competitive sports throwing out statements like it doesn't matter if the the guys in the room don't get along. It matters. A lot.
                          "It’s no secret that Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant were not on the best of terms for much of their time together with the Los Angeles Lakers. Both of them have said that numerous times over the years"

                          They also won 3 NBA titles.

                          There's a difference between "putting differences aside for the good of the team" and "everybody liking each other" as you put it.
                          If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                            "It’s no secret that Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant were not on the best of terms for much of their time together with the Los Angeles Lakers. Both of them have said that numerous times over the years"

                            They also won 3 NBA titles.

                            There's a difference between "putting differences aside for the good of the team" and "everybody liking each other" as you put it.
                            You never have played any sport at all have you.
                            A jerk or two in the room causes problems.
                            If Bryant and ONeal liked each other instead of tolerated each other....maybe the Lakers would have won 5 instead of 3.
                            There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                            - TGO

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                              That team went what.. 42 and 22 over the course of the year. Something clicked for the group. So much so that they all came back save for Salmons. If team chemistry is so easy to create why doesn't every team have it ?
                              Teams that have it and have everything go right for them in a given year have a far higher chance to win than those who are playing for cheques. Those guys in San Antonio... Duncan / Parker / Ginobili.. and the Raps rise from the dead last year are a pretty compelling case for chemistry creates winners.
                              who said chemistry was easy to create? i just said that im on the side of the idea that winning creates chemistry. your argument is to mention the spurs for no reason at all.

                              so your spurs example is a 'compelling case for chemistry creates winners' but someone else mentions the kobe shaq mess and your only argument towards that is "they probably could have won more".

                              this argument is dumb.

                              guess why salmons didn't come back? it wasn't for a lack of chemistry thats for sure because everyone in the locker room loved him. players often quoted him over and over. yet he left due to his shitty STATS.
                              Last edited by iblastoff; Fri Jan 2, 2015, 02:11 AM.

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