Windows

[raptors999]

I'm still on Windows 7. The whole Windows 8 thing has thrown me for a loop.

I miss DOS

[CalgaryRapsFan]

The thing is I'm not even talking about the Raptors being in a position to jump to the contendership level by making a trade. I'm just thinking more might need to be done to fully entrench themselves as a 2nd tier team. As CalgaryRapsFan pointed out there are lots of teams in or close to our position, and our position itself isn't nearly as good as we might think. As has been much talked about as of late the Raptors really benefited from a soft early schedule. In reality we may not be the at the top of the heap when it comes to 2nd tier teams. Atlanta and Washington might be that much further ahead because they have that much more talent on their rosters.

With 3 1st round picks in the next 2 drafts, as well as significant cap space projected for the next couple offseasons, I really think MU is looking at least a season or two ahead. Conspiracy theories aside, it really makes sense given the age of the bulk of the roster, and it aligns with the franchise's strategy (ie: 20th anniversary, rebranding, hosting all-star game... 20 years marks the end of the 'expansion/growth' era, with the new era being all about winning).

Any playoff success in the short-term will be icing on 'sustainable winning franchise' cake that MU is baking.

[e_wheazhy_]

This kind of thing is never easy to discuss. Foresight in this area is usually just getting lucky with predictions.

For instance, if you had told me last year, even with all the hype, that LeBron and Love would end up in Cleveland, I'd think you're spouting bullshit. I know it's his home and they were younger than the Heat....But they were a terrible organization, and you know what? They still kind of look like one. In half a year they went from a young team with nothing but promise to a veteran team making desperate, short-term moves. So thinking they'd be the same team as last year, there's no way I would think they would be a contender. But if I knew LeBron and Love would be there, I'd also have a hard time believing that they would be this mediocre.

So lets say the Raptors are close to a top-tier, truly elite contender....What if they make a move and it backfires? The window suddenly gets a lot harder to predict.

Then you have to think about all the other teams and their situations. Who are the Raptors current peers, in terms of teams in comparable situations? Washington? Atlanta? And maybe teams like Milly, Charlotte, Detroit, Orlando and Boston are just about there? So many teams that could move in any direction. Charlotte looked ready to join Toronto, Washington and Atlanta....made a big move for Lance, and are half as good this year after adding a young near all-star level player. NYK look like they're in a horrible situation, but they'll have tons of capspace and a high pick this year. One big summer could turn it around there.

I think Toronto's window could end up being very long if they get lucky and do things right. Jonas is just 22. DeMar is just 25. If these guys end up being two major pieces to the puzzle, they could supply part of a solid base you could build around for another 10 years if things go very well for us. For about half those, you can hope Lowry keeps his play up, then you probably need a replacement. Maybe we still need one more piece added to those three, however I don't think there's an obvious answer there yet and a shortsighted move probably isn't worth the trouble. Shortsighted to me doesn't necessarily mean going after an older, veteran piece...but any piece ideally needs to be someone who'll at least be useful about as long as Lowry. And then you can look at it as building two different teams around DD and Jonas over whatever span of years.

There's one way I keep thinking of it....If this young team's window is supposedly just opening, then, well, it's really actually not. To me, the window really hasn't even opened. We're tapping at the glass, but it's still closed. At best it's just opened a crack. I think the East is wide open, and if things fell just right, we could even somehow make it all the way to the NBA finals....but does anyone think we could beat whichever team comes out of the West in a 7-game series? I'd like to, but I don't.

Stay the course. Don't make a win-now move that doesn't help you win "later". Again, "worst"-case, any big talent brought in has to align with Lowry's prime years. This team is just getting started, and doesn't need to screw up it's chances of having a window for the next 5-10 years by doing something to try and widen it for the next year or two.

Well I think anything is possible, as our friend Kevin Garnett so eloquently put it. Looking at how such a stacked team as Cleveland has been so terrible and decimated by injuries, you absolutely never know what will happen. So many things can go right for the raptors and wrong for he other teams (or vice versa, I know).

But we could get lucky and sweep Milwaukee in round 1, take out Atlanta as Washington grinds out 4 of 7 against the Bulls, crush an exhausted Wizards team in the ECF and catch the an injury decimated Grizzlies/Warriors squad after a hard fought WCF for the championship.

[white men can't jump]

Well I think anything is possible, as our friend Kevin Garnett so eloquently put it. Looking at how such a stacked team as Cleveland has been so terrible and decimated by injuries, you absolutely never know what will happen. So many things can go right for the raptors and wrong for he other teams (or vice versa, I know).

But we could get lucky and sweep Milwaukee in round 1, take out Atlanta as Washington grinds out 4 of 7 against the Bulls, crush an exhausted Wizards team in the ECF and catch the an injury decimated Grizzlies/Warriors squad after a hard fought WCF for the championship.

In which case it still would've been a good idea to not make any reactionary move to try and up those chances just for this season (or even a move that would carry over to next).

You don't make a move, you just get a better read on what this group is as currently composed.

You make a move and it doesn't lead to something like a Finals appearance, you've probably not really improved anything in the short or long-term, just you'll probably have less flexibility moving forward.

[OldSkoolCool]

My 2 cents...

Build a program with a distinct identity and play the right way. Success will follow.

That way the window is always open and you have a shot. Winning it all is so tough...

[ezz_bee]

My 2 cents...

Build a program with a distinct identity and play the right way. Success will follow.

That way the window is always open and you have a shot. Winning it all is so tough...

+1
I'm very wary of a team build process that says "The Cavs don't have it together, and the Bulls are old and facing injuries, THIS IS OUR YEAR!!!" We still will have to play those teams next year, and I don't think Atlanta is going anywhere anytime soon. A one year window is just to small.

Also, I don't think you can make huge roster changes mid season and hope to win the title in the same year, takes to long for guys to mesh, and learn coaching schemes. The bigger the change the longer it takes to see the results, so there's a good chance that making a change this year actually reduces our chances to win this year. I'm not saying Masai shouldn't make a move, I just think we should worry about the Granger-Evans effect.

[iblastoff]

+1
I'm very wary of a team build process that says "The Cavs don't have it together, and the Bulls are old and facing injuries, THIS IS OUR YEAR!!!" We still will have to play those teams next year, and I don't think Atlanta is going anywhere anytime soon. A one year window is just to small.

Also, I don't think you can make huge roster changes mid season and hope to win the title in the same year, takes to long for guys to mesh, and learn coaching schemes. The bigger the change the longer it takes to see the results, so there's a good chance that making a change this year actually reduces our chances to win this year.I'm not saying Masai shouldn't make a move, I just think we should worry about the Granger-Evans effect.

are you already forgetting about last years Rudy trade?

[KHD]

I'm still on Windows 7. The whole Windows 8 thing has thrown me for a loop.

linux4life

Generally i don't agree with the notion that we have a "window of opportunity". In the NBA all it takes is a few moves from key players and a new superpower is born (Celtics in '07, Heat in '10).

I would rather see us establish a solid framework, in terms of front office, coaching staff, player development (practice facilities, D-League affiliate), and then we'll be able to plug in players that work. I'm thinking much longer term than a short window of opportunity.

Having said that, I still want Casey gone ASAP. I have patience, just not for fools.

[raptors999]

linux4life

Generally i don't agree with the notion that we have a "window of opportunity". In the NBA all it takes is a few moves from key players and a new superpower is born (Celtics in '07, Heat in '10).

I would rather see us establish a solid framework, in terms of front office, coaching staff, player development (practice facilities, D-League affiliate), and then we'll be able to plug in players that work. I'm thinking much longer term than a short window of opportunity.

Having said that, I still want Casey gone ASAP. I have patience, just not for fools.

The last sentence should just be a Sig.

[OldSkoolCool]

+1
I'm very wary of a team build process that says "The Cavs don't have it together, and the Bulls are old and facing injuries, THIS IS OUR YEAR!!!" We still will have to play those teams next year, and I don't think Atlanta is going anywhere anytime soon. A one year window is just to small.

Also, I don't think you can make huge roster changes mid season and hope to win the title in the same year, takes to long for guys to mesh, and learn coaching schemes. The bigger the change the longer it takes to see the results, so there's a good chance that making a change this year actually reduces our chances to win this year. I'm not saying Masai shouldn't make a move, I just think we should worry about the Granger-Evans effect.

Let me finish the bolded sentence for you, and I quote

"we don't have an identity" - Dwayne Casey

We will never amount to anything when we are lacking that....

linux4life

Generally i don't agree with the notion that we have a "window of opportunity". In the NBA all it takes is a few moves from key players and a new superpower is born (Celtics in '07, Heat in '10).

I would rather see us establish a solid framework, in terms of front office, coaching staff, player development (practice facilities, D-League affiliate), and then we'll be able to plug in players that work. I'm thinking much longer term than a short window of opportunity.

Having said that, I still want Casey gone ASAP. I have patience, just not for fools.

x1000

I like our front office, scouting, Alex McKechnie, and some of our assistants.

Casey is the weakest link by far and it comes down on him to create a strong system and identity for this team.

[ezz_bee]

are you already forgetting about last years Rudy trade?

The difference in that situation was that they didn't bring back any huge pieces. It was more about better chemistry with the existing guys. It's way easier to integrate bench players than starters.

[Mediumcore]

So apparently MU was on Fan 590 yesterday and stated that the team may need a to take a step back next season in order to be better in the future. It got me thinking of this thread. Have the Raptors' window to be a consistent 50-ish win team closed?

Is it back to being a bottom dweller for this team for who knows how long, or should MU be aggressive this summer and try to keep us relavent?

[mcHAPPY]

So apparently MU was on Fan 590 yesterday and stated that the team may need a to take a step back next season in order to be better in the future. It got me thinking of this thread. Have the Raptors' window to be a consistent 50-ish win team closed?

Is it back to being a bottom dweller for this team for who knows how long, or should MU be aggressive this summer and try to keep us relavent?

He said it was a possibility.

He said nothing has been ruled out.

[Mediumcore]

He said it was a possibility.

He said nothing has been ruled out.

The fact that he is even considering that is surprising to me. Maybe it's the right thing to do, but really surprising. We have a opportunity to establish ourselves as a conistent 50 win team and from a busines perspective and from the perspective of a franchise that has been at the bottom for so long I don't know how you can give that opportunity up. It's as a consistent winner you have the greatest ability to show case to free agents that Toronto is a desirable destination. You go back to being a 20-30 win team and you've lost that.

Personally I think he is just giving his usual bull about not closing any doors and leaving all options on the table while "evaluating". I would be shocked if he closed the window on this opportunity.

[mcHAPPY]

The fact that he is even considering that is surprising to me. Maybe it's the right thing to do, but really surprising. We have a opportunity to establish ourselves as a conistent 50 win team and from a busines perspective and from the perspective of a franchise that has been at the bottom for so long I don't know how you can give that opportunity up. It's as a consistent winner you have the greatest ability to show case to free agents that Toronto is a desirable destination. You go back to being a 20-30 win team and you've lost that.

Personally I think he is just giving his usual bull about not closing any doors and leaving all options on the table while "evaluating". I would be shocked if he closed the window on this opportunity.

He was asked a direct question about if they'd take a step back.

It doesn't matter the question, he says something on everything asked but rarely gives any information.

If he was asked are you going all in on this core and looking to load up in free agency and trade prospects and picks, I bet he would have said something to the effect of they are looking at everything and no possibilities have been ruled out.


I can't wait for draft night.