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  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I think a lot of people's hatred for Casey has to do with his usage of JV.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    Not at all. Used be a part of it, but with Ibaka, I can understand JV getting less minutes.

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    • special1 wrote: View Post
      Pick a side Keon..... Although, I must warn you..... If you say anything good about Casey often enough, you will be branded.

      Lots of reasonable hardcore fans in the middle or on the positive side...... Do not worry.

      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      KeonClark wrote: View Post
      Just read the last few pages..this thread is tense! Lol im outta this one
      lol. You're either with us or against us, Keon. Pledge your allegiance now, or suffer the consequences. This thread has gone all Trump-Bannon extremist. I was actually neutral-to-meh on Casey until somehow I got swept up to the front of the FireCasey bandwagon. I think I'll check back in at the end of the year when my all-you-can-eat crow buffet is ready.

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      • A.I wrote: View Post
        Not at all. Used be a part of it, but with Ibaka, I can understand JV getting less minutes.
        Agreed.

        It is much more to do with his poor rotations, not holding his star players accountable on defence (DD), freezing up a hot hand (ie/ nights where JV, Powell etc are hot to start then get benched), keeping a player on the court that is getting torched (ie/ Carroll) and his TERRIBLY predictable SINGLE offensive set the HIGH PnR done to the death....just as a starting point lol

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        • I'm trying to envision various scenarios of how this team would look with a more strong handed coach. It always ends up with a unhappy Lowry.

          I think Lowry needed a coach like Casey, to blossom into the player that he has become. And most would agree this team is as good as it is because of Lowry.

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          • LJ2 wrote: View Post
            I'm trying to envision various scenarios of how this team would look with a more strong handed coach. It always ends up with a unhappy Lowry.

            I think Lowry needed a coach like Casey, to blossom into the player that he has become. And most would agree this team is as good as it is because of Lowry.
            As a total guess I would think Lowry would thrive with a player coach like Lue ie/ like Stackhouse. I'll give it that Casey was good in the sense that he isn't the type of a coach to try and overpower Lowry but Casey just makes so many boneheaded decisions (see previous post).

            Tbh I haven't watched nearly enough of the 905 to know how Stackhouse coachs other than to see that the 905 has actually seen a HUGE improvement in their record since last year and that's also considering Norm and Delon aren't there and for the most part our 2 rookies have travelled with the team vs played down there so he's doing it with less talent but yes admittingly it's the D-League so who knows?! I tend to believe he's doing something right and when I watched Open Gym, I liked his coaching style, I feel like him and Lowry would do well together and I think he would be more open to letting Kyle have input into the team's offensive and defensive schemes as you can be sure LBJ has with Lue and we know ISN'T the case between Casey and KL, hence his voiced displeasure with play calls etc. Sorry for the rant but I really believe if we had a more ADAPTABLE coach in general that our team would go up another notch vs pounding the rock at the same old plays.

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            • Stackhouse is destroying the D League..Raps better not loose him,he will get considerations from other teams.
              "Never apologize for coming to me. Office hours are for patients.
              My kitchen is always open to friends"

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              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                I think a lot of people's hatred for Casey has to do with his usage of JV.
                I don't think that is true.

                His inflexibility might be my top reason.
                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                  As a total guess I would think Lowry would thrive with a player coach like Lue ie/ like Stackhouse. I'll give it that Casey was good in the sense that he isn't the type of a coach to try and overpower Lowry but Casey just makes so many boneheaded decisions (see previous post).

                  Tbh I haven't watched nearly enough of the 905 to know how Stackhouse coachs other than to see that the 905 has actually seen a HUGE improvement in their record since last year and that's also considering Norm and Delon aren't there and for the most part our 2 rookies have travelled with the team vs played down there so he's doing it with less talent but yes admittingly it's the D-League so who knows?! I tend to believe he's doing something right and when I watched Open Gym, I liked his coaching style, I feel like him and Lowry would do well together and I think he would be more open to letting Kyle have input into the team's offensive and defensive schemes as you can be sure LBJ has with Lue and we know ISN'T the case between Casey and KL, hence his voiced displeasure with play calls etc. Sorry for the rant but I really believe if we had a more ADAPTABLE coach in general that our team would go up another notch vs pounding the rock at the same old plays.
                  A guess is a big risk to bet the best years of Raptors history on. I could totally see Lowry never having surpassed the player he was when he got to Toronto in a more restrictive environment. Not saying Casey is the only coach capable of getting the best out of Lowry and I see his weaknesses as does everyone else. However I think a lot of fans gloss over the positives and don't value how difficult those positives are to find in a coach. The way they assume anyone would be a step up from Casey reflects a certain hatred of the man which I don't understand.

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                  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                    I think a lot of people's hatred for Casey has to do with his usage of JV.

                    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                    Hmm. I'm a pretty big critic of Casey's, but I hardly only criticize him for usage of JV.

                    Scola, Siakam, all-bench units, late game turtling offence with a lead, Salmons, Fields, Vasquez, Lowry's minutes, and yeah, JV's usage and minutes. I think I've been most vocal about the ones earlier in the list versus the ones at the end of the list.

                    Hardly fair to say only one of those are the source of the criticism just because it's the flavour of the month.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                      A guess is a big risk to bet the best years of Raptors history on. I could totally see Lowry never having surpassed the player he was when he got to Toronto in a more restrictive environment. Not saying Casey is the only coach capable of getting the best out of Lowry and I see his weaknesses as does everyone else. However I think a lot of fans gloss over the positives and don't value how difficult those positives are to find in a coach. The way they assume anyone would be a step up from Casey reflects a certain hatred of the man which I don't understand.
                      Yeah, I dont get it either.

                      Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                      Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Sun Mar 5, 2017, 10:29 AM.
                      @Chr1st1anL

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                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        Lol. You already know the answer to your own question, slaw. The only player left from that Teague, Korver. Carroll, Millsap, Horford core is Milsap. Hawks have had significant roster turnover the last few seasons, in contrast to the Raps who have stayed relatively stable except for talent upgrades to complement the core. Milsap could be gone next year, so the Hawks are still trying to determine what their core even is, moving forward. Pretty bad comp, IMO.
                        FYI - The year the Hawks dropped from 6th to 22nd in ORTG was a team that had 4/5 starters return from the previous season. The year before that when they jumped to 6th from 18th in ORTG, they had 5/5 starters carry over. It was really only this past year when they overhauled the roster, losing Teague/Horford in the summer and then trading Korver early in the season. So it might not be as bad of a comp as you think... lots of continuity on those rosters that ping ponged up and down the ORTG ranks those years.

                        Regardless, it seems that you're in agreement that personnel matters when it comes to these types of performances but at the same time have no problem laying all of the blame for a sliding DRTG at the feet of Casey. It's more of the same mindset that holds Casey to a much different standard than other coaches, simply to make your point.

                        I think generally speaking we've had average to slightly below average defensive personnel over the last 4 years and we've churned out average to slightly below average defensive teams in that same time span. Have we absolutely maxed out our potential on that end of the court? No, probably not. And for that Casey deserves a portion of the blame. But the notion that a coach should be able to simply scheme any group of players into a top 5 defence by sheer will is inaccurate.

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                        • Fully wrote: View Post
                          FYI - The year the Hawks dropped from 6th to 22nd in ORTG was a team that had 4/5 starters return from the previous season. The year before that when they jumped to 6th from 18th in ORTG, they had 5/5 starters carry over. It was really only this past year when they overhauled the roster, losing Teague/Horford in the summer and then trading Korver early in the season. So it might not be as bad of a comp as you think... lots of continuity on those rosters that ping ponged up and down the ORTG ranks those years.

                          Regardless, it seems that you're in agreement that personnel matters when it comes to these types of performances but at the same time have no problem laying all of the blame for a sliding DRTG at the feet of Casey. It's more of the same mindset that holds Casey to a much different standard than other coaches, simply to make your point.

                          I think generally speaking we've had average to slightly below average defensive personnel over the last 4 years and we've churned out average to slightly below average defensive teams in that same time span. Have we absolutely maxed out our potential on that end of the court? No, probably not. And for that Casey deserves a portion of the blame. But the notion that a coach should be able to simply scheme any group of players into a top 5 defence by sheer will is inaccurate.
                          Who's demanding a top 5 defence? I believe that your post is the very first post to even bring that notion you are dismissing into the conversation.

                          Would you not agree that defence is more effort and preparation based than offence?

                          A good coach can take a group of players and have good defence much easier than taking those same players and trying to make a good offence. Offence by its nature will have a higher variance. Also let's not just get hung up on the numbers as none are ideal indicators, the defensive effort is simply not there consistently from this team, regardless of which roster composition you look at from the Casey era.
                          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                          • Axel wrote: View Post

                            Would you not agree that defence is more effort and preparation based than offence?
                            Sure, but really not sure where I tried to say otherwise, nor does it really have anything to do with my previous post.

                            A good coach can take a group of players and have good defence much easier than taking those same players and trying to make a good offence. Offence by its nature will have a higher variance. Also let's not just get hung up on the numbers as none are ideal indicators, the defensive effort is simply not there consistently from this team, regardless of which roster composition you look at from the Casey era.
                            Sure, once again I'm not in disagreement. I just don't make the leap as you do where the above statement equates Casey being a fool. I just got finished saying he deserved a portion of the blame. And no, he's not some defensive genius. This isn't meant to be a blanket endorsement of the man. Believe it or not, there is middle ground to be explored here. I just don't get outraged or shocked when average or below average defensive personnel gives you defence that's just that. We're talking about the highest level of coaching in the world where teams pour millions of dollars each year in scouting, etc. I don't think there's that many top secret schemes left out there that can level the playing field for poor individual defenders... flatly, the personnel matters. A lot.

                            And if coaching offence is much more difficult than defence, I'd guess you want to commend Casey for taking this group near the top of the NBA on that side of the ball? Let me guess though, it's the players that deserve all of that credit.
                            Last edited by Fully; Sun Mar 5, 2017, 01:18 PM.

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                            • Fully wrote: View Post
                              And if coaching offence is much more difficult than defence, I'd guess you want to commend Casey for taking this group near the top of the NBA on that side of the ball? Let me guess though, it's the players that deserve all of that credit.
                              Casey deserves credit, but he isn't responsible for Derozan scoring 30+ in 5 straight games or Lowry's hot shooting. Plus the offense/defense fell off a cliff when 2017 began, unless Patterson for some reason is the key to the defense and offense lol.

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                              • A.I wrote: View Post
                                Casey deserves credit, but he isn't responsible for Derozan scoring 30+ in 5 straight games or Lowry's hot shooting. Plus the offense/defense fell off a cliff when 2017 began, unless Patterson for some reason is the key to the defense and offense lol.
                                That's kind of my entire point. I find it silly how we pick and choose when the players deserve all the credit, or the coach deserves all of the blame, based on how it suits our side of the argument.

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