#FireCasey

[Jrice9]

On a Casey adjacent note, do you think he will and should make Tucker the starter over Carroll down the stretch/in the playoffs?

[JawsGT]

On a Casey adjacent note, do you think he will and should make Tucker the starter over Carroll down the stretch/in the playoffs?

I don't think he will, but I think he should. As long as PJ continues to knock down 3's then it's a no brainer for me. 3pt shooting is important from that position, and I haven't checked the stats but I do believe PJ has been shooting it really well since joining the team. But, I do think it's Carroll position to lose, and depending on playoff matchups, Casey may very well turn the starting job over to PJ if necessary.

[KeonClark]

On a Casey adjacent note, do you think he will and should make Tucker the starter over Carroll down the stretch/in the playoffs?

He totally should and our MLSE paid announcers suggested as much on last night's game.

Your lock down d man should always start halves, or you've wasted 15 precious minutes against an all star wing. An argument could be made that carroll is a better shooter, which we need off the bench when joseph is the bench guard and Terrence is in Disney world.

[Jrice9]

He totally should and our MLSE paid announcers suggested as much on last night's game.

Your lock down d man should always start halves, or you've wasted 15 precious minutes against an all star wing. An argument could be made that carroll is a better shooter, which we need off the bench when joseph is the bench guard and Terrence is in Disney world.

I agree with almsot all of this (think without Lowry, shooting would be a problem but vs defense hard to decide). Another option is starting Tucker or Patterson at the 4 and Ibaka at the 5 (this might happen in the playoffs depending on the matchup) but I don't think they want to alienate JV like this and it makes the rotation screwy.

[JamesNaismith]

I agree with almsot all of this (think without Lowry, shooting would be a problem but vs defense hard to decide). Another option is starting Tucker or Patterson at the 4 and Ibaka at the 5 (this might happen in the playoffs depending on the matchup) but I don't think they want to alienate JV like this and it makes the rotation screwy.

No absolutely not, Carroll should be coming off the bench at best (period).

Enough with trying to appease a single player on a horrible contract when it hurts the entire team having him out there. If they want to give Carroll minutes here or there when 2 more mobile bigs like Pat and Ibaka are out there to compensate for his shot knee then fine.

But we CAN NOT have BOTH him and DeMar allowing opposing wings to heat up because they are awful defenders that will rely on a laterally slow C like JV will be (and has been) a recipe for destruction. We need to be smarter not sensitive, not to mention gets in DeMar's ear to play harder defensively. Winning cures all problems. Enough charity for DeMarre, us sacrificing to please him and time for him to sacrifice for the good of the team.

[Jrice9]

No absolutely not, Carroll should be coming off the bench at best (period).

Enough with trying to appease a single player on a horrible contract when it hurts the entire team having him out there. If they want to give Carroll minutes here or there when 2 more mobile bigs like Pat and Ibaka are out there to compensate for his shot knee then fine.

But we CAN NOT have BOTH him and DeMar allowing opposing wings to heat up because they are awful defenders that will rely on a laterally slow C like JV will be (and has been) a recipe for destruction. We need to be smarter not sensitive, not to mention gets in DeMar's ear to play harder defensively. Winning cures all problems. Enough charity for DeMarre, us sacrificing to please him and time for him to sacrifice for the good of the team.

Ok, I want to start with a couple achnowedgements.

1, DeMar's defense is not good. It's not as bad as some believe and its been better lately but its mostly been bad. (Hopefully, the upward trend that has happened since the trades continue). However, because of his offense and his position (wing defender #2) he's clearly a net massive positive, much like other mediocre defending stars/superstars (see Harden, James, Westbrook, Russell, Irving, Kyrie, McCollum, CJ) are.

2, DeMarre Carroll has not lived up to expectations and has been a disappointment. While injury clearly plays a role this is definately true. He is not as good offensively or defensively as we have hoped.

3, The starting lineup has struggled all season (arguably last year too but a certain Argentinian was likely the biggest reason why). This is true both before and after the trade deadline. However, we have yet to see a starting lineup post trade with Lowry which is kind of a big deal consider he's our best player. His addition changes how this team can play offensively and arguablly the personnel they need on the floor to have a good offense (letting them be defensive).

Having made all these points which may be slightly but not totally objectionable, I want to ask questions:

1, How good/bad is Carroll defensively?
2, How good/bad is JV defensively?
3, Would our defense be better with moving JV to the bench or with moving Carroll to the bench?
4, Would our offense be better with moving JV to the bench or with Carroll to the bench? (Before you answer JV consider spacing issues that might exist with starting Tucker and JV)
5, If the answer to 3 and 4 is different, which one is more important/impactful?
6, Are there any other factors (Rotation, chemistry, yes egos and trade value) that would prefer one answer to the other?

These are all thoughts Casey has to have if he makes a move.

I'm just not clear any of these answers are entirely obvious especially in a context where Lowry has not yet played and we have not seen what he can do.

I think there is an argument the Raptors best 5 man starting lineup in April or May would be:

Lowry-DeMar-Norm-Tucker-Ibaka

with Carroll, Patterson, JV and CoJo and Wright coming off the bench.

This involves neither JV nor Carroll in the starting lineup.

I think what's clear is that this is complicated stuff that does not necessarily have a clear answer this year. This is not like Scola vs Patterson imo because all of these guys are going/pushing to play (other than Wright)

[golden]

He totally should and our MLSE paid announcers suggested as much on last night's game.

Your lock down d man should always start halves, or you've wasted 15 precious minutes against an all star wing. An argument could be made that carroll is a better shooter, which we need off the bench when joseph is the bench guard and Terrence is in Disney world.

+1

[A.I]

On a Casey adjacent note, do you think he will and should make Tucker the starter over Carroll down the stretch/in the playoffs?

1000% he should. You could make the case that it really isn't a big deal since Tucker gets most of the minutes anyway, but you want to put pressure on guys like Lebron and PG right from tip off so they can't get a rhythm. You keep starting Carroll, they'll start making shots and it'll make Tucker's job tougher.

[Jrice9]

I don't think he will, but I think he should. As long as PJ continues to knock down 3's then it's a no brainer for me. 3pt shooting is important from that position, and I haven't checked the stats but I do believe PJ has been shooting it really well since joining the team. But, I do think it's Carroll position to lose, and depending on playoff matchups, Casey may very well turn the starting job over to PJ if necessary.

Tucker is shooting basically the same as Carroll has all season from 3 since the trade. Both are at about 34% which is about league average. This is based on similar amount (per 100 possessions) and Tucker's is arguably more impressive as I suspect he is playing less time with our main creators (DeMar and CoJo) as a percentage of his minutes.

Couple caveats:

1, This is a small sample size for Tucker though he has shot 34% all season and really for the last couple years.
2, Carroll's year is alot worse than he has been in the past and definately has more upside from range.
3, Carroll I think actually does create more spacing as defenses respect his range more (see point #2 for why)

Still, I didn't quite realize how close this is and it really hurts Carroll's argument especially in a post Lowry return.

I still think some of this team's best lineups will have 2 of Carroll, Patterson and Tucker on the floor with Ibaka and Derozan (and CoJo/hopefulyl Lowry)

[DanH]

Ok, I want to start with a couple achnowedgements.

1, DeMar's defense is not good. It's not as bad as some believe and its been better lately but its mostly been bad. (Hopefully, the upward trend that has happened since the trades continue). However, because of his offense and his position (wing defender #2) he's clearly a net massive positive, much like other mediocre defending stars/superstars (see Harden, James, Westbrook, Russell, Irving, Kyrie, McCollum, CJ) are.

2, DeMarre Carroll has not lived up to expectations and has been a disappointment. While injury clearly plays a role this is definately true. He is not as good offensively or defensively as we have hoped.

3, The starting lineup has struggled all season (arguably last year too but a certain Argentinian was likely the biggest reason why). This is true both before and after the trade deadline. However, we have yet to see a starting lineup post trade with Lowry which is kind of a big deal consider he's our best player. His addition changes how this team can play offensively and arguablly the personnel they need on the floor to have a good offense (letting them be defensive).

Having made all these points which may be slightly but not totally objectionable, I want to ask questions:

1, How good/bad is Carroll defensively?
2, How good/bad is JV defensively?
3, Would our defense be better with moving JV to the bench or with moving Carroll to the bench?
4, Would our offense be better with moving JV to the bench or with Carroll to the bench? (Before you answer JV consider spacing issues that might exist with starting Tucker and JV)
5, If the answer to 3 and 4 is different, which one is more important/impactful?
6, Are there any other factors (Rotation, chemistry, yes egos and trade value) that would prefer one answer to the other?

These are all thoughts Casey has to have if he makes a move.

I'm just not clear any of these answers are entirely obvious especially in a context where Lowry has not yet played and we have not seen what he can do.

I think there is an argument the Raptors best 5 man starting lineup in April or May would be:

Lowry-DeMar-Norm-Tucker-Ibaka

with Carroll, Patterson, JV and CoJo and Wright coming off the bench.

This involves neither JV nor Carroll in the starting lineup.

I think what's clear is that this is complicated stuff that does not necessarily have a clear answer this year. This is not like Scola vs Patterson imo because all of these guys are going/pushing to play (other than Wright)

I have a piece up at Raptors HQ today that starts to look at this question exactly, by looking at the two most played lineups since the break and comparing their results and the players in them.

As an aside though, I very much dislike the idea of starting Ibaka at C. He's very good there, but extended minutes against bigger players is going to wear him down. Better to save that look to close games, or to play against inferior bench opposition if we shrink to a 3 man big rotation in the playoffs.

[LJ2]

Rollin' - pound the rock and next man up are paying off down the stretch.

Don't forget "DeMar is our guy" and "come hell or high water". If Casey doesn't continue to have (what seemed like) blind faith in DeMar in the face of ridiculously poor career shooting percentages, does DeMar ever become a clear #1 scoring option, legit All Star, and worthy of being built around?

[LJ2]

On a Casey adjacent note, do you think he will and should make Tucker the starter over Carroll down the stretch/in the playoffs?

Nope. Going to be tougher to sign a starter as opposed to bench player. We know who is going to close out games and play during crunch time. Let's keep him our little secret and hope the rest of the league doesn't notice until after we sign him.

[ogi]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...h-ratings-1-30

Espn coach rankings

[The Great One]

https://twitter.com/raptorsrepublic/...46744928485376

[3inthekeon]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...h-ratings-1-30

Espn coach rankings

Not a bad list. Outside of wins and losses, there is little objectivity in judging coaches - very much the iceberg principle.