Is it time to trade Sweet Lou?

[black angus]

I personally think that despite some heroic moments, Lou is helping to destroy the Raptor's offence. The Raptor's are starting to regress to the style of offence they played when Rudy Gay was on the team. The ball is stopping, too much offence is coming from the perimeter, and it seems like other players are trying to get theirs when they are finally able to touch the ball. Yes, there are other issues with the Raptor's offence, likely rarely passing into the post, but I think moving Lou would help. Other benefits of moving Lou:
- he may attract a decent return on the trade market
- JJ and Fields up the depth chart, two players who are better passers and defenders than Lou
- not having to watch an NBA line up that sees Lou, Greivis and Lowry all on the court at the same time.

I think the Raptors biggest need is a four or five that can rebound and protect the rim. Other than that I would look at a draft pick or two. People have suggest going after Taj Gibson, which would be great, but I don't think the Raptors have anything the Bulls want.

Suggestions for what to do with Lou?

[charlesnba23]

I kind of agree with you. Even though I really like Lou and he's been a great asset to our team (helped build our confidence, 3rd best scorer with over 15 ppg), I don't necessarily think he's going to be part of the plan going forward.

I'd like to see a Lowry-Vasquez and DeMar-Ross rotation at the 1 and 2 spot.

If he can land us a new starting SF, a new starting PF, a LEGIT (meaning near starting caliber) backup center or a 1st round draft pick, I say trade him.

If not, ride with him, absolutely.

[iblastoff]

Bulls need a wing upgrade. Lou for taj.

[charlesnba23]

Yep, Lou+Fields or Lou+Hayes and add a pick and do it. bring Amir back next year. Don't need another backup center since Nogueira will be one year older, same for JV and teams are going small.

Valanciunas/Johnson/Nogueira
Gibson/Patterson/Hansbrough
?????/Johnson/Caboclo
DeRozan/Ross/?????
Lowry/Vasquez/?????

[GuiJaeger]

I, for one, would move Vasquez for a more traditional and better defensive PG before moving Lou. But if he gets us something great, I wouldn't oppose to it, of course.

[breakin_ankles]

Yep, Lou+Fields or Lou+Hayes and add a pick and do it. bring Amir back next year. Don't need another backup center since Nogueira will be one year older, same for JV and teams are going small.

Valanciunas/Johnson/Nogueira
Gibson/Patterson/Hansbrough
?????/Johnson/Caboclo
DeRozan/Ross/?????
Lowry/Vasquez/?????

Does anybody believe 2pat can play the SF position? Like he has a wide range of moves, quick feet, some rebounding skills and is great with his back to the hope but not necessarily in the low post.
Just curious not saying he should.

What about scooping Chandler from Denver? To help space in the starting line...

Or start JJ, 2pat & JV with the bench of Chandler, Amir & Taj. (but I know Taj wants to start), getting a 3/D SF to start is the better scenario... Though I know some people don't like Chandler.

[white men can't jump]

Does anybody believe 2pat can play the SF position? Like he has a wide range of moves, quick feet, some rebounding skills and is great with his back to the hope but not necessarily in the low post.
Just curious not saying he should.

What about scooping Chandler from Denver? To help space in the starting line...

Or start JJ, 2pat & JV with the bench of Chandler, Amir & Taj. (but I know Taj wants to start), getting a 3/D SF to start is the better scenario... Though I know some people don't like Chandler.

2Pat is not a SF. He can manage if forced into such a situation defensively on a switch, but it's not something you want to try with him *regularly. He also doesn't play that "big" in the sense that he wouldn't really be exploiting mismatches offensively either. His greatest asset offensively is his outside shot, which is far more impactful at PF where he pulls a big man out of the paint.

Also, and please don't think I'm trying to make this any kind of personal....but why the fuck are people so fucking high on Wilson Chandler? He's a decent wing, but not that impactful. He's not an elite shooter or anything...not even close. And he's definitely closer to being a ball-stopper than mover, and it's not like he's a super efficient scorer. Not to mention he's had injuries plaguing him his whole career. I'm not even convinced he's that good defensively, which is probably the most frequently cited pro.

[raptors999]

Does anybody believe 2pat can play the SF position? Like he has a wide range of moves, quick feet, some rebounding skills and is great with his back to the hope but not necessarily in the low post.
Just curious not saying he should.

What about scooping Chandler from Denver? To help space in the starting line...

Or start JJ, 2pat & JV with the bench of Chandler, Amir & Taj. (but I know Taj wants to start), getting a 3/D SF to start is the better scenario... Though I know some people don't like Chandler.

Depends on the SF. He could have guarded Pierce in the playoffs. Any small ball 4 is guardable by 2Pats otherwise he would be benched when team go small.

[breakin_ankles]

2Pat is not a SF. He can manage if forced into such a situation defensively on a switch, but it's not something you want to try with him *regularly. He also doesn't play that "big" in the sense that he wouldn't really be exploiting mismatches offensively either. His greatest asset offensively is his outside shot, which is far more impactful at PF where he pulls a big man out of the paint.

Also, and please don't think I'm trying to make this any kind of personal....but why the fuck are people so fucking high on Wilson Chandler? He's a decent wing, but not that impactful. He's not an elite shooter or anything...not even close. And he's definitely closer to being a ball-stopper than mover, and it's not like he's a super efficient scorer. Not to mention he's had injuries plaguing him his whole career. I'm not even convinced he's that good defensively, which is probably the most frequently cited pro.

We need a 3/D guy to start between DD & Amir and I know his name is in trade talks, and although he isn't overly efficient, he would be like the #4 option in our starting five so it may help his performance. Really it isn't anything tying me to him, it's more that he is a legit 3 and can shoot the three combined with the fact that he is actually available

[white men can't jump]

We need a 3/D guy to start between DD & Amir and I know his name is in trade talks, and although he isn't overly efficient, he would be like the #4 option in our starting five so it may help his performance. Really it isn't anything tying me to him, it's more that he is a legit 3 and can shoot the three combined with the fact that he is actually available

His career 3% is .339, and has only once shot better than .350. He's been a below-average to average shooter his whole career.

His D has never really impressed me, and I'm not sure where he got the reputation of being a good defender.

If you want a 3/D guy, Willson Chandler is not the answer.

*IMO, he fits exactly nothing this team needs other than having better size than Ross for SF.

[raptors999]

2Pat is not a SF. He can manage if forced into such a situation defensively on a switch, but it's not something you want to try with him *regularly. He also doesn't play that "big" in the sense that he wouldn't really be exploiting mismatches offensively either. His greatest asset offensively is his outside shot, which is far more impactful at PF where he pulls a big man out of the paint.

Also, and please don't think I'm trying to make this any kind of personal....but why the fuck are people so fucking high on Wilson Chandler? He's a decent wing, but not that impactful. He's not an elite shooter or anything...not even close. And he's definitely closer to being a ball-stopper than mover, and it's not like he's a super efficient scorer. Not to mention he's had injuries plaguing him his whole career. I'm not even convinced he's that good defensively, which is probably the most frequently cited pro.

Either GV, Demar or Lowry is the 3 now defensively. There are about a half dozen guys that are worse in the league. There are 2-3 guys on the bench better and maybe a couple wearing suits at the end of the bench. Chandler is an upgrade and I don't even like him much.

[white men can't jump]

Either GV, Demar or Lowry is the 3 now defensively. There are about a half dozen guys that are worse in the league. There are 2-3 guys on the bench better and maybe a couple wearing suits at the end of the bench. Chandler is an upgrade and I don't even like him much.

Upgrade over who? Ross? Ross is a better shooter and when he shows up, a much better perimeter defender. JJ is a better utility player and defender and has even better size. Chandler just shoots too much, gets injured a lot, and plays very overrated D (might be tied to how often he's injured because it's hard to compete defensively if you're constantly hurt).

[raptors999]

Upgrade over who? Ross? Ross is a better shooter and when he shows up, a much better perimeter defender. JJ is a better utility player and defender and has even better size. Chandler just shoots too much, gets injured a lot, and plays very overrated D (might be tied to how often he's injured because it's hard to compete defensively if you're constantly hurt).

Ross is too small and JJ can't play next to Demar without 2Pats. Chandler fits right between Ross and JJ in size and can play with the starters or on the bench replacing either Ross or JJ depending on matchups without impacting other positions. He isn't a great shooter but better than JJ.

[white men can't jump]

Ross is too small and JJ can't play next to Demar without 2Pats. Chandler fits right between Ross and JJ in size and can play with the starters or on the bench replacing either Ross or JJ depending on matchups without impacting other positions. He isn't a great shooter but better than JJ.

He's just an inefficient scorer who doesn't pass a lot. I don't get the appeal. Sure he's bigger than Ross, but a worse fit offensively as a shooter. Sure he shoots better than JJ, but is worse in every other way probably. Basically, instead of relying on two players who have different real strengths, you rely on a player who doesn't have those strengths because he "fits" better due to his size while being a mediocre all-around player. So not worth wasting any assets on.

I just don't see what's so great about his fit that makes it even remotely worth making a trade for him. The only thing I like about him is he rebounds for a wing.

*Gotta remember we'd have to give up something to get him. So would the move be a net positive?

[breakin_ankles]

He's just an inefficient scorer who doesn't pass a lot. I don't get the appeal. Sure he's bigger than Ross, but a worse fit offensively as a shooter. Sure he shoots better than JJ, but is worse in every other way probably. Basically, instead of relying on two players who have different real strengths, you rely on a player who doesn't have those strengths because he "fits" better due to his size while being a mediocre all-around player. So not worth wasting any assets on.

I just don't see what's so great about his fit that makes it even remotely worth making a trade for him. The only thing I like about him is he rebounds for a wing.

*Gotta remember we'd have to give up something to get him. So would the move be a net positive?

OK well then how about Gerald Green in Phoenix, and maybe Plumlee too. Both as backups.

Lowry / Vasquez
DD / Ross
JJ / Green / Bruno
2pat / Amir
JV / Plumlee / Bebe (and Chuck daddy)

Plumlee & Green can potentially just be temporary while Bruno and Bebe develop (or we sign KD).

Using expirings, and Lou in a three team deal this could happen. Maybe send Lou to a western team with say fields, then hands and somebody from the western team to phx. Maybe send Lou and fields to Minnesota for thad young, who goes to phx with hands, then we get green and plumlee.... Would that work?