Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

E. Koreen: Lowry/DD/Ross/Amir/JV Are a Crappy Starting Five

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    golden wrote: View Post
    Exactly. Larry Brown calls it "playing the right way".

    For an athletic wing like Ross who can shoot it, that should mean a healthy dose of using screens and making hard cuts to create space and get the defence moving. But Ross is being trained to become a 1-on-1 dribble-drive specialist, when he clearly lacks the handle and aggression to be that type of player. Or, he's just being used as a 4th option, end-of-clock, dump off 3-pt specialist. There's a difference between productive minutes, empty minutes or even destructive minutes.

    For JV, he needs to learn how to pass out of the post and re-set and develop chemistry with the other players. Instead we're seeing 1-on-1 post clear outs, with opposing guards swiping at the ball. Often the ball is fed in the high post, too far from the hoop, or at an awkward angle.

    Watch a guy like Steven Adams, with far less experience, hit the cutter for an easy layup. This guy was completely raw in college. Problem is: Raps rarely even use cutters, and aren't very good at feeding the post. Both of those things are system issues and not in JV's control to develop.

    L
    I'm not sure why there is this impression that Ross is being trained to be a 1 on 1 specialist. He handles the ball very little and is used mainly as a shooter. When he was in college he was much more of a 1 on 1 guy along side Wroten Jr. If anything I see them training him to be more of a 3 & D guy. But ofcourse they would also like such a young player to expand his skill set and I don't see anything wrong with that. I see no bad habits due to coaching. If anything he looks stoned most of the time and that has nothing to do with they way they are developing him.

    For JV, I think they just want to refine his low post skills. I'm pretty sure nobody is saying JV, once you get the ball please don't pass it out of the post. He's got to get comfortable in the post before he starts to expand to other skills like passing it out to open shooters, but again I'm sure nobody is saying not to. He's a slow learner thus far and I think not passing has more to do with him than coaching. More importantly JV puts up great numbers and I think any bad habits he already has are being curbed by playing time. I don't think there is any bad habits that I've seen him pick up due to the way he is being developed.

    Comment


    • #47
      mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
      I don't think so.

      The Raptors do have good pieces just not being utilized to full potential.

      Bring in a new head coach, trade DeRozan, and get a solid contributor in FA this summer.

      Do those things and I think the Raptors get better short and long term.


      Lowry is a really good player - he has just lost his way in the last couple of months.
      JV is also a really good player.

      PG and C are the hardest positions to fill.
      Agree with everything here, I was just kidding.

      Comment


      • #48
        Mediumcore wrote: View Post
        I'm not sure why there is this impression that Ross is being trained to be a 1 on 1 specialist. He handles the ball very little and is used mainly as a shooter. When he was in college he was much more of a 1 on 1 guy along side Wroten Jr. If anything I see them training him to be more of a 3 & D guy. But ofcourse they would also like such a young player to expand his skill set and I don't see anything wrong with that. I see no bad habits due to coaching. If anything he looks stoned most of the time and that has nothing to do with they way they are developing him.

        For JV, I think they just want to refine his low post skills. I'm pretty sure nobody is saying JV, once you get the ball please don't pass it out of the post. He's got to get comfortable in the post before he starts to expand to other skills like passing it out to open shooters, but again I'm sure nobody is saying not to. He's a slow learner thus far and I think not passing has more to do with him than coaching. More importantly JV puts up great numbers and I think any bad habits he already has are being curbed by playing time. I don't think there is any bad habits that I've seen him pick up due to the way he is being developed.
        Good counters; however, I'd argue that the proof of the pudding is that experienced guys like DD, Amir and Lowry also don't do those "playing the right way" things often enough. It's a priority issue, IMO. The BBIQ of the team seems low, right across the board. And I'd also argue, if you're not learning to play the right way, then yes, you are most definitely picking up bad habits. Both Ross and JV are turnover machines, which seems to be the result of forcing them to create their own 1-on-1 offence. It's like trying to learn to dance the tango by yourself. DD and Lowry are still doing that.

        And we rarely use cutters, even though we've got a great one (Fields) and another guy (JJ) who could develop into a great one. IMO, using cutters is another way to improve spacing for guys who aren't 3-pt threats. Just looking again at the Steven Adams video - it's beautiful. Notice how even the guy guarding the cutter is physically close enough to easily swipe the ball out of Adam's hands, but is forced to pay full attention to the cutter all the way from the 3-pt line to the basket. In JV's case, the rest of the unit is stagnant, so it's easy for an opposition help defender to cheat off his man, swipe at the ball and recover, because the Raps player is going to be in exactly the same spot.

        Typically, when you're learning a new skill, you start with the easier things and then work your way up to harder things. In the case of JV, we're asking him to do the harder thing (i.e. create offense all by yourself from 15-ft out, without any outlet pass or post re-set opportunities). Seems backwards, IMO.
        Last edited by golden; Fri Mar 20, 2015, 01:52 PM.

        Comment


        • #49
          consmap wrote: View Post
          This has been mentioned before, and some on this forum have named it "The People's Lineup". I think that unit started a game once, I don't remember which one though.
          Golden State game. We got killed but I don't think it had anything to do with the lineups as we got killed the first time we played them too.

          Comment


          • #50
            Unless you have access to practice, film sessions and the players' individual training regimens, then I am not sure how you can intelligently comment on the organization's player development one way or another. The only judgment we can make is based on an inference from player performance and, when that's the standard, the reality is that: (a) transplants like Lowry, Lou Williams, James Johnson, and Patterson have all had their best years here by most measures; (b) homegrown guys like Derozan (until this year), Amir (until the injuries caught up with him this year) and Valanciunas have improved each year. Ross is the outlier but to suggest that he hasn't had an opportunity is ludicrous.

            I don't know if the Raptors are doing enough to develop their players but they certainly seem to get a lot out of their rotation players, both young and veterans, which leads me to believe the issue is less about player development and utilization and more about personnel deficiencies and limitations.
            Last edited by slaw; Fri Mar 20, 2015, 04:28 PM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
              Golden State game. We got killed but I don't think it had anything to do with the lineups as we got killed the first time we played them too.
              That was the game where 2Pats was inserted into the starting lineup. Green defending 2Pats offers no advantage and actually hurts 2Pats, JJ makes more sense. Against SAS with Splitter and OKC and I bake he was back on the bench.

              Comment


              • #52
                Who has NBA 2K15? I want to see the results of a simulated game between The People's Lineup and The Crappy Starting Five.

                Because analytics. Y'know.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Koreen is wrong, its a good starting 5.. if you fire Casey
                  The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    enlightenment wrote: View Post
                    Koreen is wrong, its a good starting 5.. if you fire Casey
                    Enlightenment is jumping on the fire casey bandwagon harder than anyone ive ever seen.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      jacobdr4 wrote: View Post
                      Enlightenment is jumping on the fire casey bandwagon harder than anyone ive ever seen.
                      The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        jacobdr4 wrote: View Post
                        Enlightenment is jumping on the fire casey bandwagon harder than anyone ive ever seen.
                        30 footer to lose a game will do that. Odds are at least one playoff game will end the same way

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          enlightenment wrote: View Post
                          I'm so glad i missed this game , i might of cried.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            raptors999 wrote: View Post
                            30 footer to lose a game will do that. Odds are at least one playoff game will end the same way
                            How about the series? I mean casey is 1 for 1 when it comes to that so far

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              C - Amir
                              PF - PP
                              SF - JJ
                              SG - DD
                              PG - KL

                              Much better defensive and offensive team.
                              Mamba Mentality

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                TRex wrote: View Post
                                C - Amir
                                PF - PP
                                SF - JJ
                                SG - DD
                                PG - KL

                                Much better defensive and offensive team.
                                They'd get killed inside and on the glass by any team with a legit C, or a decent C/PF combo that plays inside.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X