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  • #16
    McRealistic wrote: View Post
    Great players, diamond in the rogues, going for the big moves, good scouting and ... pretty much anti-MU.

    People fail to realize that Jerry West works for Warriors
    What big moves? There are only 2 moves that I recall, both seeming to be one-sided at the time - low risk / high reward.

    1. Dumped old-school / old-Warriors overrated hero-ball Ellis for injury-prone defensive anchor Bogut

    2. Salary dumped Biedrins & Jefferson (and 2 1st round picks) on a tanking Utah team, to land Iguodala

    I do agree that they found some solid role players who have fit their system perfectly (ie: Lee, Speights, Livingston), but most of their key pieces have been added through the draft (ie: Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green) or extremely fortunate trade opportunities (ie: Iguodala & Bogut)


    More than anything, both teams are showing what can happen when talented players (ie: not superstars) are accumulated on a team that plays together with chemistry and 'fit', accepting their roles and putting the team first, while sharing the ball and giving consistent effort at both ends of the court.

    I think it also shows what a good coach can both design a system to maximize the talent on the roster (both individually and collectively) and get each and every player to buy-in to his vision.

    Talent is obviously important, but only if it can be harnessed effectively. That's where DC has been dropping the ball for the Raptors. Given how awful the EC is this season and how well the Raptors have played at times, I think they're underachieving relative to the talent/potential on the roster. The reason for that is DC and his inability to be successful doing the 2 things I mentioned above, which is where Kerr has excelled this season.

    Throwing MU under the bus is a cheap attempt at deflecting well deserved blame away from DC.

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    • #17
      Offense:
      Ball movements is sexy. Iso heavy, long 2 + turn around – is not. But… for this sexy system to succeed a few things need to fall in place:
      1. System – and that includes: GM, coaches, players (in that order) – all buy in and work together.
      2. Players – those who can shoot (e.i. no “summer 3” from Meaford, ON ala Amir Johnston), those who can create a shot for themselves and for others (e.i. not two-three dribbles into the paint, then a jump with a hope to find someone ala Demar) and even more importantly, those who are willing passers. Not only capable passers (e.i. not current Jonas but maybe, just maybe something closer to Sabonis – sorry I couldn’t resist here. Of course, talented bigs that can pass like Arvydas are not born every year…) but willing passers. Those who pass an open shot for an even better shot.

      Defense:
      What the Warriors have today is something special: Klay Thompson, Iggy and Barns – all long, fast, solid perimeter defenders, who can change every single screen and rotate, help, defend one-on-one. Then they have Draymond Green, who coaches simply love. He does everything for the team. He can guard 3 or even 4 positions but more importantly, he is a leader of that team on defense. Rumor is he has asked Kerr to call a time out so he could reap apart his own teammates for not playing hard on D. Of course, it help to have a true rim protector in Bogut. If Bogut was healthy and played more games… Golden State would be scary good on D. Having all these above average defenders allows Kerr to hide Curry on defense. The key to Warriors success on defense is a collection of good defenders.

      How this compares to Raptors: it does not. We have a totally different team at this point. Fortunately for us, we play in the East (that will improve by the way. It is inevitable. Weather it will happen next year or three years from now is subject to debate, but teams like Boston will bounce back) so the competition is easier. I’d argue that this Raps team wouldn’t even make the playoffs in the west.
      A change is needed. Casey has been brought in as a defensive coach but the defense does not work. It is not all his fault, of course, but we need a coaching change and a system change. We also need to change some players. I hope Toronto makes it to the second round AND those changes take place. Of course, there is a possibility of a general consensus of “oh, we have achieved our goal this season” so no change is necessary and let’s hope for “organic growth”.

      Comment


      • #18
        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
        What big moves? There are only 2 moves that I recall, both seeming to be one-sided at the time - low risk / high reward.

        1. Dumped old-school / old-Warriors overrated hero-ball Ellis for injury-prone defensive anchor Bogut

        2. Salary dumped Biedrins & Jefferson (and 2 1st round picks) on a tanking Utah team, to land Iguodala

        I do agree that they found some solid role players who have fit their system perfectly (ie: Lee, Speights, Livingston), but most of their key pieces have been added through the draft (ie: Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green) or extremely fortunate trade opportunities (ie: Iguodala & Bogut)
        Throwing MU under the bus is a cheap attempt at deflecting well deserved blame away from DC.
        LOOOOOL, Only 2 moves which you can contributes to all of their TEAM . Getting players like Iggy, Boguy, Lee, dating from 2nd round guys like Green, getting Klay in the middle of first round and ...

        This is stuff of legend. Now sitting on the corner, not having the guts to touch the team or the coach, drafting Bruno well, that is MU.

        MU was the genius when this team was doing good and all kinda of #s were flying around. Now, things are going sideways but nothing is MU's fault. It is all coach's fault. Yah, right

        Comment


        • #19
          McRealistic wrote: View Post
          LOOOOOL, Only 2 moves which you can contributes to all of their TEAM . Getting players like Iggy, Boguy, Lee, dating from 2nd round guys like Green, getting Klay in the middle of first round and ...

          This is stuff of legend. Now sitting on the corner, not having the guts to touch the team or the coach, drafting Bruno well, that is MU.

          MU was the genius when this team was doing good and all kinda of #s were flying around. Now, things are going sideways but nothing is MU's fault. It is all coach's fault. Yah, right
          "Moves" are trades, no? I also gave credit to the drafting and free agent signings, so I'm not sure why your panties are so tightly bunched.

          As for MU, I was pro-rebuild ("tank") last season and wouldn't have brought DC back for this season despite last season's 'success' (I wanted a rebuild under a coach who is known for effectively developing young players), so I definitely have an itchy trigger finger, so to speak. However, I'll gladly reserve judgment on MU until the end of this coming offseason, to see what moves he makes to truly put his mark on this franchise/team/roster.

          Comment


          • #20
            McRealistic wrote: View Post
            LOOOOOL, Only 2 moves which you can contributes to all of their TEAM . Getting players like Iggy, Boguy, Lee, dating from 2nd round guys like Green, getting Klay in the middle of first round and ...

            This is stuff of legend. Now sitting on the corner, not having the guts to touch the team or the coach, drafting Bruno well, that is MU.

            MU was the genius when this team was doing good and all kinda of #s were flying around. Now, things are going sideways but nothing is MU's fault. It is all coach's fault. Yah, right
            So you pick GSW as your example of talent/GM making the difference? Despite the fact that the most recent big move was Iggy, over a season and a half ago, and the team as is became much better with exactly the same talent but a different coach? Good example their bud.

            By the way, GSW doesn't constantly make moves or anything. The biggest move they made last summer was adding Livingston, a role player, and not too different from Masai getting guys like JJ and Lou. The last move that was big was almost 2 years ago now in getting Iggy. Almost 3 years in getting Bogut. And almost 5 years for getting Lee. In other words, where they are now is the product of 5-6 years of building going back to the 2009 draft where they took Curry, and more than half of those years before they started making big moves to add big talents (depending on how you view Lee, who was kind of a rush/pressure move in that free agency bonanza in 2010 where they probably thought they needed to land somebody with their money).

            But sure, shit on MU because he hasn't done enough in the same span it's been since GSW's last big move. He just completely cleaned up the total garbage from the roster, adding a bench, more assets and flexibility in the process, while the team improved. All that in less than 2 years (ie the span since GSW's last big move). But yeah, your "aggressive" team took half a decade to get all the piece together yet you're willing to throw MU under the bus in less than 2 years.

            Comment


            • #21
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              So you pick GSW as your example of talent/GM making the difference? Despite the fact that the most recent big move was Iggy, over a season and a half ago, and the team as is became much better with exactly the same talent but a different coach? Good example their bud.
              .
              I don't think you read what I wrote. I like Golden State for the proven brain behind their moves : Jerry West.
              For doing great scouting: Green from 2nd round.
              For great trades that brought pieces that fit together: Iggy and Bogut
              For making moves that surprised the rest of the league: Letting go of Jackson and getting Kerr
              For drafting the right guys: Curry and Klay

              ....

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              • #22
                McRealistic wrote: View Post
                I don't think you read what I wrote. I like Golden State for the proven brain behind their moves : Jerry West.
                For doing great scouting: Green from 2nd round.
                For great trades that brought pieces that fit together: Iggy and Bogut
                For making moves that surprised the rest of the league: Letting go of Jackson and getting Kerr
                For drafting the right guys: Curry and Klay

                ....
                That "brain" had several seasons to shape the roster (a roster that already had Curry and Lee when he joined). Masai has had 2, and in the first one he had zero flexibility and no draft pick. But you criticize him every chance you get. Does he need to do more? Sure, but he's barely had the chance to do anything yet. 2 years (and again, the first summer he basically had nothing to work with) is not enough time to judge him.

                Going back to West. He is also one of the greatest bball minds ever. And it's not like his teams never stagnated. He had to be patient making the transition from Showtime to Shaq-Kobe Lakers. Didn't happen overnight, it took several years to rebuild the team. He also helped make Memphis legitimate (note that he took the job a year AFTER they drafted Pau), but he could not find a way to get them over the hump of just being a playoff team. Maybe it was ownership tying his hands. Maybe it was just harder to attract talent to, at that time, a bad franchise in a small market. But it shows that even some of the best can "fail", because building a team is difficult, and really not something you can force/rush.

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