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Is Masai Ujiri Too Risk Averse?

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  • #31
    OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Casey = Shell
    Jonas = Nut
    Raptors Fans = crazy Deadpool

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    • #32
      golden wrote: View Post
      I actually got along really well with Tim when he was a poster here on RR, and even though I don't like his condescending tone as a regular RR blog writer I still respect his opinions. That said, he really jumped the gun on this one and seems to be going out of his way to build a case against MU that really isn't there.... yet.

      As KHD pointed out, implying that Wiggins for Amir/DD was on the table in the off-season without a single source to back it up, is shoddy writing and yet that would be the only credible argument to support his thesis that MU is supposedly risk averse.
      Keep in mind that after suggesting that deal, he refers to the Kobe trade and the Leonard trade. Maybe Tim was suggesting a similar trade, not necessarily JUST that one trade, because that was never possible. Not sure if this was a real possibility but Bill Simmons suggested Charlotte's #9 pick + Henderson for DD and the raps 2014 pick, and if this was the best deal for DD there is no way Wiggins was in play.

      Onto this year, I would like to see some sort of "risky" move (all moves are risky but a more risky one). I am against trading Lowry, JV and Bruno but anyone else is possible. I would target Kevon Looney or Porzingas in the draft or a few guys from last years draft that have been battling injury or just couldn't find minutes (Noah Vonleh, Randle, Stauskus, etc.)

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      • #33
        DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
        Keep in mind that after suggesting that deal, he refers to the Kobe trade and the Leonard trade. Maybe Tim was suggesting a similar trade, not necessarily JUST that one trade, because that was never possible. Not sure if this was a real possibility but Bill Simmons suggested Charlotte's #9 pick + Henderson for DD and the raps 2014 pick, and if this was the best deal for DD there is no way Wiggins was in play.

        Onto this year, I would like to see some sort of "risky" move (all moves are risky but a more risky one). I am against trading Lowry, JV and Bruno but anyone else is possible. I would target Kevon Looney or Porzingas in the draft or a few guys from last years draft that have been battling injury or just couldn't find minutes (Noah Vonleh, Randle, Stauskus, etc.)
        I think I've made it know that I like Stauskas but at this point I really would like to see MU go seemingly off the reserve on a few trades. Another guy I would still like to get my hands on is Jeremy Lamb. Solid 2-way player, long, can shoot. Buried on a bench

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        • #34
          OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
          I think I've made it know that I like Stauskas but at this point I really would like to see MU go seemingly off the reserve on a few trades. Another guy I would still like to get my hands on is Jeremy Lamb. Solid 2-way player, long, can shoot. Buried on a bench
          There are a few of those guys on OKC. Jones had a 4 game stretch early this year when he looked like he was making some jump to a pretty good player before getting injured and then buried in the rotation. It depends on how big of a splash MU wants to make, cause i think he could get Lamb without giving up anyone important. I think Stauskus is just on the wrong team right now, not that the current Raps team would help him out much right now imo.
          Last edited by DogeLover1234; Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:04 AM.

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          • #35
            McRealistic wrote: View Post
            I think their pick needs to be top 5 ( could be wrong) otherwise it will go to Suns. That being said, if they have a top 5 pick in this year's draft, there is ZERO chance they will trade it for DD. I am willing to bet anything you want on it.

            Now, why Raptors, having all the problems in SF, PF, back up C try to trade their one position which is decent ? DD is young, athletic, has improved every year, has a good work ethics, loves the city and ...

            We need to test him under the new coach's system before rushing into trading him especially since T.Ross has been so disappointg
            You're right Lakers pick needs to be top 5 otherwise it goes to Philly and you're also probably right that dd for Lakers top 5 pick is unlikely.

            But here is my thinking:
            1) they could attach Nick Young's contract to the pick.
            2) DeRozan is proven and apparently well liked in NBA circles.
            3) convincing a player to come with DD already there is more likely than an unproven rookie.
            4) Love is their goal this summer and Love/DD is a nice pairing - on offense at least.
            5) DD's cap hit in 2016 will allow them to chase another max free agent.
            6) possibility of hometown discount.


            To get a top NBA talent is going to take more than just the lakers pick and they really don't have any other assets besides it.


            From raps perspective I'd only make the deal with possibility to get Russell or Towns.

            I think Towns will be a great compliment to JV. I think Russell will be best player from this draft.

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            • #36
              mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
              You're right Lakers pick needs to be top 5 otherwise it goes to Philly and you're also probably right that dd for Lakers top 5 pick is unlikely.

              But here is my thinking:
              1) they could attach Nick Young's contract to the pick.
              2) DeRozan is proven and apparently well liked in NBA circles.
              3) convincing a player to come with DD already there is more likely than an unproven rookie.
              4) Love is their goal this summer and Love/DD is a nice pairing - on offense at least.
              5) DD's cap hit in 2016 will allow them to chase another max free agent.
              6) possibility of hometown discount.


              To get a top NBA talent is going to take more than just the lakers pick and they really don't have any other assets besides it.


              From raps perspective I'd only make the deal with possibility to get Russell or Towns.

              I think Towns will be a great compliment to JV. I think Russell will be best player from this draft.
              Im sorry but there is no way dd is worth a top 5 pick. Even taking back nick young. Love was considered a top 7 player last year and he went for wiggins. I think wiggins was just about as good a prospect as towns and russell are now. Dd is no where near a top 15 player/asset

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              • #37
                DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
                Im sorry but there is no way dd is worth a top 5 pick. Even taking back nick young. Love was considered a top 7 player last year and he went for wiggins. I think wiggins was just about as good a prospect as towns and russell are now. Dd is no where near a top 15 player/asset
                Love's asking price was huge.

                It took a 2 #1 picks of last 2 drafts.

                Wiggins was much more hyped than Russell or towns.


                I totally
                Talking out of my ass but I actually view your post as a support for deal.

                And wouldn't it be amazing if s player walks in Lebron for once?

                Comment


                • #38
                  mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                  Love's asking price was huge.

                  It took a 2 #1 picks of last 2 drafts.

                  Wiggins was much more hyped than Russell or towns.


                  I totally
                  Talking out of my ass but I actually view your post as a support for deal.

                  And wouldn't it be amazing if s player walks in Lebron for once?
                  Bennett was quite clearly a bust. There were a lot of questions about wiggins last year to, people thought is was too hyped up coming out of high school and wouldnt be a great offensive player if memory serves.

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                  • #39
                    mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                    You're right Lakers pick needs to be top 5 otherwise it goes to Philly and you're also probably right that dd for Lakers top 5 pick is unlikely.

                    But here is my thinking:
                    1) they could attach Nick Young's contract to the pick.
                    2) DeRozan is proven and apparently well liked in NBA circles.
                    3) convincing a player to come with DD already there is more likely than an unproven rookie.
                    4) Love is their goal this summer and Love/DD is a nice pairing - on offense at least.
                    5) DD's cap hit in 2016 will allow them to chase another max free agent.
                    6) possibility of hometown discount.


                    To get a top NBA talent is going to take more than just the lakers pick and they really don't have any other assets besides it.


                    From raps perspective I'd only make the deal with possibility to get Russell or Towns.

                    I think Towns will be a great compliment to JV. I think Russell will be best player from this draft.

                    Interesting from the point of view that LA seems like a good landing place for DD.

                    How about something like this:

                    To LA: DD + Amir (s&t) + TOR 2015 1st + NYK 2016 1st + expirings (Hans, Fields, Hayes)
                    To Raps: Nick Young + Randle + Ed Davis (s&t) + LA 2015 1st + Jordan Hill

                    From Raps perspective:
                    Nick Young & Ed Davis pretty much replace DD & Amir. You get a backup center with range (Hill) + major upside power forward (Randle) & LA's pick to draft Towns.

                    For LA:
                    They get the best player in the deal (DD, "all-star") and a solid role player Amir, both from LA + more cap space to go after free agents (e.g. Kevin Love, Deandre Jordan) and two 1st round picks.
                    Last edited by golden; Sat Mar 28, 2015, 11:03 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      golden wrote: View Post
                      Interesting from the point of view that LA seems like a good landing place for DD.

                      How about something like this:

                      To LA: DD + Amir (s&t) + TOR 2015 1st + NYK 2016 1st + expirings (Hans, Fields, Hayes)
                      To Raps: Nick Young + Randle + Ed Davis (s&t) + LA 2015 1st + Jordan Hill

                      From Raps perspective:
                      Nick Young & Ed Davis pretty much replace DD & Amir. You get a backup center with range (Hill) + major upside power forward (Randle) & LA's pick to draft Towns.

                      For LA:
                      They get the best player in the deal (DD, "all-star") and a solid role player Amir, both from LA + more cap space to go after free agents (e.g. Kevin Love, Deandre Jordan) and two 1st round picks.
                      No thanks. Nick Young is a chucker. I'm not sold on Randle as he is an undersized 4. Giving up our pick this year is fine, but I'm not touching NYK pick for 2016.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        golden wrote: View Post

                        To LA: DD + Amir (s&t) + TOR 2015 1st + NYK 2016 1st + expirings (Hans, Fields, Hayes)
                        To Raps: Nick Young + Randle + Ed Davis (s&t) + LA 2015 1st + Jordan Hill
                        You think you are going to get Randle and 2015 1st round ??

                        Seriously, some of you need to become little more realistic. Call ESPN 710 and tell this to Micheal Thompson, John Ireland ( voices of Lakers), post this on their fan site and ... Heck, I will even bet you anything you want.

                        That is so one sided that I can not even imagine someone would suggest it.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          golden wrote: View Post
                          Interesting from the point of view that LA seems like a good landing place for DD.

                          How about something like this:

                          To LA: DD + Amir (s&t) + TOR 2015 1st + NYK 2016 1st + expirings (Hans, Fields, Hayes)
                          To Raps: Nick Young + Randle + Ed Davis (s&t) + LA 2015 1st + Jordan Hill

                          From Raps perspective:
                          Nick Young & Ed Davis pretty much replace DD & Amir. You get a backup center with range (Hill) + major upside power forward (Randle) & LA's pick to draft Towns.

                          For LA:
                          They get the best player in the deal (DD, "all-star") and a solid role player Amir, both from LA + more cap space to go after free agents (e.g. Kevin Love, Deandre Jordan) and two 1st round picks.
                          Way too complicated. How often do teams swap 3-4 players each? The sign and trades seem completely unnecessary.

                          I think DD is certainly worth a top 5 pick. Allstar SG who can create his own shot and get to the line at will. Has vastly improved his defense to a respectable level (our defense falls off a ton when he's out). If LA wants to get better fast then swapping their pick for a player like Derozan makes a ton of sense. Especially if they can sign Love too.

                          I wouldn't be surprised at all if LA trades that pick for an established player. They are a team that can't afford to be terrible for very long, and they've been terrible for a pretty long time now. Someone like Al Horford makes a lot of sense too, as he'd be a nice pairing with Love.

                          Basically, if LA doesn't make some serious moves they're going to be god awful again, but they don't have their pick next year (assuming they keep the pick this year, it's only 1-3 protected next year). Plus I highly doubt Kobe wants to play with a DLeague team his final year.

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                          • #43
                            Primer wrote: View Post
                            Way too complicated. How often do teams swap 3-4 players each? The sign and trades seem completely unnecessary.

                            I think DD is certainly worth a top 5 pick. Allstar SG who can create his own shot and get to the line at will. Has vastly improved his defense to a respectable level (our defense falls off a ton when he's out). If LA wants to get better fast then swapping their pick for a player like Derozan makes a ton of sense. Especially if they can sign Love too.

                            I wouldn't be surprised at all if LA trades that pick for an established player. They are a team that can't afford to be terrible for very long, and they've been terrible for a pretty long time now. Someone like Al Horford makes a lot of sense too, as he'd be a nice pairing with Love.

                            Basically, if LA doesn't make some serious moves they're going to be god awful again, but they don't have their pick next year (assuming they keep the pick this year, it's only 1-3 protected next year). Plus I highly doubt Kobe wants to play with a DLeague team his final year.
                            Would LA trade a top 5 pick in a "tanking" year they had for a one year rental? DD has only one year on his contract after this year, and that's a huge gamble, even for a team that is typically able to keep free agents (look what happened with Howard). They also get Houston's 2015 pick.. and I'm sure they'd rather give that up for DD then the top 5 pick (but then the pick becomes a terrible deal for Toronto).

                            They do get their 2016.. the 2017 pick is going to Orlando. So they should be able to draft a player next season.

                            I would love to get that top 5 pick.. just don't see it happening.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              planetmars wrote: View Post
                              Would LA trade a top 5 pick in a "tanking" year they had for a one year rental? DD has only one year on his contract after this year, and that's a huge gamble, even for a team that is typically able to keep free agents (look what happened with Howard). They also get Houston's 2015 pick.. and I'm sure they'd rather give that up for DD then the top 5 pick (but then the pick becomes a terrible deal for Toronto).

                              They do get their 2016.. the 2017 pick is going to Orlando. So they should be able to draft a player next season.

                              I would love to get that top 5 pick.. just don't see it happening.
                              Their 2016 pick goes to Philly, top 3 protected, if it doesn't go to Philly this year. The Orlando pick will get pushed back a year to 2018 and LA would get to use their 2017 pick.

                              That Houston draft pick is not worth Derozan at all. The fact they have 2 firsts this year though makes me think they'd be willing to deal the better pick for a game changing player. I'd assume they get DD to agree to resign with them before making the deal, and why wouldn't he? He's from LA, it's probably his dream to be the new face of the Lakers.

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                              • #45
                                Primer wrote: View Post
                                Way too complicated. How often do teams swap 3-4 players each? The sign and trades seem completely unnecessary.

                                I think DD is certainly worth a top 5 pick. Allstar SG who can create his own shot and get to the line at will. Has vastly improved his defense to a respectable level (our defense falls off a ton when he's out). If LA wants to get better fast then swapping their pick for a player like Derozan makes a ton of sense. Especially if they can sign Love too.

                                I wouldn't be surprised at all if LA trades that pick for an established player. They are a team that can't afford to be terrible for very long, and they've been terrible for a pretty long time now. Someone like Al Horford makes a lot of sense too, as he'd be a nice pairing with Love.

                                Basically, if LA doesn't make some serious moves they're going to be god awful again, but they don't have their pick next year (assuming they keep the pick this year, it's only 1-3 protected next year). Plus I highly doubt Kobe wants to play with a DLeague team his final year.
                                I would agree that this off-season is an important but difficult one for LA. In an ideal world, they'd try to sign at least 2 top FAs (e.g. Love, Rondo and Deandre Jordan), but one problem is Kobe killing the cap. The other problem is that every FA will want max money, even if they're not a max player (e.g. Rondo, Jordan), in anticipation of the cap going up. Or they might sign a shorter term deal.

                                LOL. I'll admit my capology and deal-making skills suck, but DD to LA does seems like a good fit and a relatively low risk move for LA.

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