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JV is the most disappointing player of 2014/15 season

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  • #16
    I can see how he could be considered disappointing by some people when there were analysts around the league pegging JV to be an all star this season. His numbers didn't really improve all that much from last season and in the 21 games DeMar was out, JV looked good but did he look like an all star..meh, he's not there yet imo. With that being said he could have potentially been one had he been used differently but who knows.

    To me my biggest issue with JV is his rebounding. I definitely wish he was more naturally athletic like Drummond to be able to be a beast on the boards but he's too slow and can't jump to ever be like that, oh well.

    As for his defense, he's not good in Casey's scheme, plain and simple and Amir/2Pat are better at it, but i personally hate Casey's defense and think every one of our players could potentially look better under another defensive style.

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    • #17
      Joey wrote: View Post
      TRoss has been infinitely more disappointing. But perhaps JV is more "disappointing" because more was expected? Who knows .. but I'm not overly disappointed with JVs season or Progress.
      +1

      Problem here is, most people here want JV to be "the guy" immediately. He's not ready. No need to rush him. Not sure if he'll ever be "the guy" here not sure if he has that upside. He's a developing player. You saw what happened last night. He's not ready to play primetime mins.
      Mamba Mentality

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      • #18
        TRex wrote: View Post
        +1

        Problem here is, most people here want JV to be "the guy" immediately. He's not ready. No need to rush him. Not sure if he'll ever be "the guy" here not sure if he has that upside. He's a developing player. You saw what happened last night. He's not ready to play primetime mins.
        Wow, super surprising quote in the bold there. If by 'the guy', you mean first/second option, or first/second best player on the team, I don't think there's a single poster here who thinks that should be the case.
        "Stop eating your sushi."
        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
        - Jack Armstrong

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        • #19
          What JV takes way too much heat for are the team's defensive issues. A lot of people have a distorted view that your C is the difference between good and bad D because the word 'anchor' is often associated to them. They talk about how bad Jonas is at the p'n'r, mostly. But with a messed up scheme and often questionable (at best) D from perimeter players, it's not so much that it's not his fault as much as it is a team-wide failure.

          People talk about how he'll never be a Chandler or Gasol, DPOY candidates...but how has Chandler looked in teams with poor defensive players/culture? After a great first year with the Knicks (team 5th in DRTG on a team with more vets), they were mediocre to bad the next 2 years, when they lost vets and guys stopped playing the right way (18th, then 24th in DRTG the following seasons). As for Gasol, how good would most Cs look if they had great defensive perimeter guys fighting hard every night? I wish we had even one all-defensive caliber player on the perimeter. Memphis has at least two with Allen and Conley, and guys like Lee, Prince, JJ, Vince, Green, even Gay (when he tries) over the years...bunch of wings who can be responsible, even good defenders (JJ is basically the only decent one we have, and he's prone to lapses in discipline). Same goes for Hibbert in Indiana or Bogut in GSW...quality perimeter D funneling guys to the big man and making the C's job easier. The common trend here is that if you have a good first line of defence, your last line (ie your bigs) is much more likely to look good because their job becomes easier. Conversely if your first line of defence is basically non-existent (see Raptors D for a great example), your bigs are left trying to handle far too much. I can't imagine guys like Gasol, Bogut and Hibbert looking very good on this team with this system.

          And sometimes we're talking basic shit where either our wings aren't preparing or our coaches aren't giving them scouting reports. Does anyone remember early games against the Magic we almost lost? I was going crazy at the tv the amount of times our guards would go above the screen on a Payton-run p'n'r....A rookie whose biggest question mark was a lack of a jumpshot, and we're giving him the lane instead of going under and trying to keep him outside...And that gets extra-frustrating in general because our guys barely fight through the screen at all, if they even try. I mean, I don't like our system, but even within it, with the play we get on the perimeter, it's no wonder our D sucks ass.

          Can't say I'm disappointed in Jonas. He's basically improved pretty much across the board (even if only slightly in most ways), and you can see as this season progresses that the game is slowing down for him. He's still inconsistent, which is understandable for a 3rd year player, but he's coming along fine.

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          • #20
            hotfuzz wrote: View Post
            Those two are debatable.
            His raw stats are down 0.1 per game but his per36, per100 possessions, and trb% are all up - not a lot but still up.

            His defence rating as per B-R is down from 104 to 105. The team defensive rating is down 2.7 year over year. Personally I look at the eye test more on this one and what happens when he leaves the game - opposition driving of the lane increases significantly, in my opinion.

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            • #21
              hotfuzz wrote: View Post
              Those two are debatable.
              He is definitely a better rebounder. And I suppose by adding more shot blocking to his defensive repetoir that he has improved defensively, tho certainly he has a ways to go defensively.

              I think he has developed considerably this year, under poor management. I look forward to another leap next year. And for him to play at a high level consistently. JV can be an allstar in this league for years to come. I also look forward to having a coach that uses him better and is committed to developing him.

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              • #22
                lol. Two years ago I promised to buy 100 or 50 pints to someone from RR if JV averages 15 & 10. I knew it's not going to happen. My expectations never been 'very' high for this kid. He's improving at perfect pace.. at least for my taste. Jonas will be a solid player for years to come, and maybe even an all star if coach Casey gets fired or Jonas signs with someone else.

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                • #23
                  DDelight wrote: View Post
                  I can see how he could be considered disappointing by some people when there were analysts around the league pegging JV to be an all star this season. His numbers didn't really improve all that much from last season and in the 21 games DeMar was out, JV looked good but did he look like an all star..meh, he's not there yet imo. With that being said he could have potentially been one had he been used differently but who knows.

                  To me my biggest issue with JV is his rebounding. I definitely wish he was more naturally athletic like Drummond to be able to be a beast on the boards but he's too slow and can't jump to ever be like that, oh well.

                  As for his defense, he's not good in Casey's scheme, plain and simple and Amir/2Pat are better at it, but i personally hate Casey's defense and think every one of our players could potentially look better under another defensive style.
                  you don't need to jump out of the gym to rebound necessarily. It is more about body positioning, determination, always battling, boxing out every time not some of the time and ripping the boards with power not just going up and letting it fall in to your hands / enabling the ball to be tapped out of your hands or stripped. He has definitely improved his aggressiveness and like I said ripping the rebound rather than just pulling it down but he needs to be more consistent.

                  The thing I find funny is guys talking about JV not being a good option yet. That somehow it is a low percentage play going in to him. He was 9-13 last night. With 9 boards. Not a stellar game from him on the boards but not really a dog shit evening at the office. In general he has been a much, much better option than many of the shots this team takes. And he seems to get held to a much higher standard when it comes to his misses (or turnovers) than the rest of the team.

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                  • #24
                    I think his rebounding numbers could be higher but I think as a whole his play is fine.

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                    • #25
                      big boi wrote: View Post
                      The thing I find funny is guys talking about JV not being a good option yet. That somehow it is a low percentage play going in to him. He was 9-13 last night. With 9 boards. Not a stellar game from him on the boards but not really a dog shit evening at the office. In general he has been a much, much better option than many of the shots this team takes. And he seems to get held to a much higher standard when it comes to his misses (or turnovers) than the rest of the team.
                      I think Jonas should be our 2nd or 3rd option on this team behind Lowry and DeMar. Possibly even 2nd with Lowry playing a bigger pg/facilitator role while JV supplants him for 2nd option.

                      I don't really like to rely on field goal percentage with JV because with this team he gets a lot of his points from tip-ins after missed shots or on really good passes resulting in easy dunks and layups for him (like that stretch in the 3rd qtr yesterday where few of his points actually came from him working in the post).

                      That's not the same as consistently giving it to him in the post to do work. It's like no one would look at DeAndre Jordan's league leading fg% and think he deserves to be better options than Blake and Paul, because we all know most of DJ's points are from alley oop dunks.

                      But again, I believe he needs to be a bigger option on this team, but I understand the hesitation in him being our go to option down the stretch of close games. Still trust Lowry and DeMar more at this point.

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                      • #26
                        I have to say, I really think anyone disappointed with JV had:

                        a) unrealistic expectations,
                        b) hasn't been following his minute allocation or opportunity received for previous 2 seasons under Casey.

                        Compare JV's 3rd season to mystery player X:





























































                        Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
                        2014-15 22 74 74 26.4 4.7 8.2 .573 4.7 8.2 .574 2.9 3.6 .796 2.7 5.9 8.7 0.5 0.4 1.2 1.3 2.7 12.3
                        Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
                        Generated 4/4/2015.



                        Above is JV raw stats




























































                        Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
                        2014-15 22 74 74 1952 6.4 11.2 .573 6.4 11.2 .574 3.9 4.9 .796 3.7 8.1 11.8 0.6 0.6 1.6 1.8 3.7 16.8
                        Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
                        Generated 4/4/2015.



                        Above is JV per36mins
































































                        Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS ORtg DRtg
                        2014-15 22 74 74 1952 9.2 16.1 .573 9.2 16.1 .574 5.6 7.0 .796 5.4 11.6 17.0 0.9 0.8 2.4 2.6 5.3 24.0 122 105
                        Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
                        Generated 4/4/2015.



                        Above is JV per100 possessions














































                        Season Age G MP PER TS% FTr TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% WS WS/48
                        2014-15 22 74 1952 21.0 .626 .435 19.0 2.9 0.8 3.7 12.0 19.1 7.9 .193
                        Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
                        Generated 4/4/2015.



                        Above is JV advanced stats:































































                        Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
                        2013-14 23 57 57 31.8 6.2 12.2 .507 6.2 12.2 .507 1.8 2.4 .766 3.2 7.7 11.0 1.8 1.1 0.8 2.0 3.0 14.2
                        Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
                        Generated 4/4/2015.



                        Above is Mystery player X 3rd year raw stats





























































                        Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
                        2013-14 23 57 57 1812 7.0 13.8 .507 7.0 13.8 .507 2.1 2.7 .766 3.7 8.8 12.4 2.1 1.2 0.9 2.2 3.4 16.1
                        Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
                        Generated 4/4/2015.



                        Above is Mystery player X 3rd year per36

































































                        Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS ORtg DRtg
                        2013-14 23 57 57 1812 10.0 19.7 .507 10.0 19.7 .507 3.0 3.9 .766 5.2 12.5 17.7 2.9 1.7 1.3 3.2 4.8 22.9 106 103
                        Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
                        Generated 4/4/2015.



                        Above is Mystery Player X 3rd year per100:













































                        Season Age G MP PER TS% FTr TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% WS WS/48
                        2013-14 23 57 1812 18.8 .536 .197 19.5 10.2 1.7 2.0 12.9 21.8 4.4 .116
                        Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
                        Generated 4/4/2015.



                        Above is Mystery Player X 3rd year advanced stats


                        Too many columns on one of those charts but JV 3rd year ORtg is 122 and DRtg is 105 with mystery player X being 106 and 103.
                        Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Apr 4, 2015, 06:02 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Who's mystery player x?
                          The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                          • #28
                            Really sorry about above post.

                            Not sure how to stop the format from being so spaced.

                            Suggestions? I can fix it if you do.

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                            • #29
                              007 wrote: View Post
                              Who's mystery player x?
                              Click view original table

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Great comparison.

                                Most of us only see opposing bigs when they play against the Raptors (at least that is true for me).

                                Of course, when I am watching opposing bigs, I am watching them play against a team with crap defense, poor PnR defense, a stupid scramble style of D that effectively means JV will be left rushing out to cover some wide open guard or SF who is shooting a three, and consequently has the option to dump it down to the big JV has just left.

                                No wonder he looks a little lost defensively.

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