Has MU become MLSE's next lap dog?

[raptors999]

or casey was kept because the team has grown every year he was here and firing people for making you better is dumb

Very few coaches survive being on the final year of a contract and Casey has done it twice. Keeping a coach with no intention of extending is dumb

[KeonClark]

Lebron just lost to a system for the second straight year

Lebron lost to more talent. System comes second. Curry thompson green iguodala bogut barnes shits all over lebron and his gang of end of rotation below average shlufs

[raptors999]

Lebron lost to more talent. System comes second. Curry thompson green iguodala bogut barnes shits all over lebron and his gang of end of rotation below average shlufs

Same talent lost in the second round with a crap system a year ago

[Mess]

Same talent lost in the second round with a crap system a year ago

Checkmate

[Miekenstien]

Very few coaches survive being on the final year of a contract and Casey has done it twice. Keeping a coach with no intention of extending is dumb

or is it fiscally responsible?

[KeonClark]

Same talent lost in the second round with a crap system a year ago

Really? Draymond Green didn't take a huge leap this year? Steph Curry didn't go from all star to talent to 2nd best player in the world? Klay Thompson didn't take another progressive step and become a top 3 guard? Next I know you'll say that's all because of Kerr. Kerr is a great coach but he has a ring cause he coaches Steph Curry and a wicked supporting cast. And everything fell right, San Antonios out early, Memphis is banged up bad, Lebron loses any good supporting players he had and I'm willing to bet if Mark Jacksons at the helm we're looking at you 2015 champs anyways. Its a fine line in the Western Conference, second round loser to NBA champion.

[raptors999]

Really? Draymond Green didn't take a huge leap this year? Steph Curry didn't go from all star to talent to 2nd best player in the world? Klay Thompson didn't take another progressive step and become a top 3 guard? Next I know you'll say that's all because of Kerr. Kerr is a great coach but he has a ring cause he coaches Steph Curry and a wicked supporting cast. And everything fell right, San Antonios out early, Memphis is banged up bad, Lebron loses any good supporting players he had and I'm willing to bet if Mark Jacksons at the helm we're looking at you 2015 champs anyways. Its a fine line in the Western Conference, second round loser to NBA champion.

most of them progressed once they got rid of Jackson. Under the ISO heavy Jackson nobody improves, Adams probably helped them defensively but engaging everyone on both side helps too. barnes went from bust to valuable starter. It wasnt progress but development, under Jackson Barnes would have been shipped out with Lee

[Nilanka]

Nilanka, you've been here for years, too. Don't you think now is an odd time in the history of the franchise to say enough?!

I mean, one was fine with the "New Era" marketing campaign featuring posters of Rob Babcock and Sam Mitchell? Trading Vince Carter for a bucket of balls and paying Alonzo Mourning $9 million to win a championship with another team? Losing Tracy McGrady and Chris Bosh for nothing? Having Butch Carter humiliate and embarrass both himself and the franchise by going insane right before the biggest game in Toronto Raptor history (to that point)? Trading for Jermaine O'Neal? Trading Jermaine O'Neal to help Miami clear cap space for Chris Bosh? Spending $10 million on Hedo Turkoglu? Sam Mitchell fighting players? Rafer Alston threatening to retire? Some of the worst drafting in the last 15 years? God telling John Salmons not to come here?

20 dubious years filled with ineptitude and failure is bearable but the straw that breaks the camel's back is Ujiri retaining Casey? Not blowing up the most successful roster in the team's history? That's the tipping point? Really? You've got a new ownership group throwing hundred of millions around like candy, one of the best young GMs in the game and a team that has given you 2 years of meaningful basketball. This is the time someone picks to jump ship?

On the surface, yeah it does seem like an odd time to jump ship. But if you've been calling for a tank/rebuild for the past 3+ years, only to see the team blow opportunities for long-term improvement instead, it's going to annoy you (especially when combined with the lingering frustration due to the long list of dumb decisions you mentioned above). I mean in hindsight, would anyone here trade an Atlantic Division banner for a 25% chance at Wiggins? I certainly would.

NOTE: It's entirely possible that my frustration has little do to with the Raptors, and everything to do with the fact that I now have 2 toddlers to care for (who weren't around when Masai was hired), and that I have to be very selective with how I spend what little free time I have. On my current list of priorities, watching a treadmill team race nowhere 82 times a year will soon be replaced by keeping crayons out of nostrils .

But if we tear it down properly, build around a true franchise player (or two), however long that may take, I might be willing to ignore any Crayola-related emergencies and reintroduce myself to the fanaticism that ran through me over the past 2 decades.

Right now, I feel like



But I'm waiting for a reason to feel like

[golden]

On the surface, yeah it does seem like an odd time to jump ship. But if you've been calling for a tank/rebuild for the past 3+ years, only to see the team blow opportunities for long-term improvement instead, it's going to annoy you (especially when combined with the lingering frustration due to the long list of dumb decisions you mentioned above). I mean in hindsight, would anyone here trade an Atlantic Division banner for a 25% chance at Wiggins? I certainly would.

NOTE: It's entirely possible that my frustration has little do to with the Raptors, and everything to do with the fact that I now have 2 toddlers to care for (who weren't around when Masai was hired), and that I have to be very selective with how I spend what little free time I have. On my current list of priorities, watching a treadmill team race nowhere 82 times a year will soon be replaced by keeping crayons out of nostrils .

But if we tear it down properly, build around a true franchise player (or two), however long that may take, I might be willing to ignore any Crayola-related emergencies and reintroduce myself to the fanaticism that ran through me over the past 2 decades.

In hindsight, of course not, because we know what actually happened - Cleveland unexpectedly leap-frogged all those teams that tanked real hard and snagged the pick.

The issue is the probability of getting that #1 pick when you're actually trying to get it. I think it's like, less than 5% (totally arbitrary), so NO, I really don't like those odds. And furthermore, the way BC constructed this roster, it was almost impossible to out-tank some of the other team who were trying hard, yet still didn't end up with Wiggins. And ironically, Wiggins was flipped for assets.

It seems like it's better to focus on player development and creating high value tradeable assets, to be ready to pounce when these opportunities pop up. I think Masai's done that with DD & Lowry, but Casey's messed things up with JV & Ross.

A more legitimate beef against the franchise would be BC passing on Harden for JV because that was supposedly a deal that was actually on the table. And Wiggins isn't even remotely close to being in Harden's class yet, so that lowers the probability of getting that superstar even more. That 25% chance is way over-stated, IMO.

[Nilanka]

In hindsight, of course not, because we know what actually happened - Cleveland unexpectedly leap-frogged all those teams that tanked real hard and snagged the pick.

The issue is the probability of getting that #1 pick when you're actually trying to get it. I think it's like, less than 5% (totally arbitrary), so NO, I really don't like those odds. And furthermore, the way BC constructed this roster, it was almost impossible to out-tank some of the other team who were trying hard, yet still didn't end up with Wiggins. And ironically, Wiggins was flipped for assets.

It seems like it's better to focus on player development and creating high value tradeable assets, to be ready to pounce when these opportunities pop up. I think Masai's done that with DD & Lowry, but Casey's messed things up with JV & Ross.

A more legitimate beef against the franchise would be BC passing on Harden for JV because that was supposedly a deal that was actually on the table. And Wiggins isn't even remotely close to being in Harden's class yet, so that lowers the probability of getting that superstar even more. That 25% chance is way over-stated, IMO.

I'll grant you the 25% is overstated, but the point I was trying to make is that I would rather take a shot in the lottery (regardless of the actual probability of landing 1st pick), than attempt to build a competitive team knowing you're missing superstar talent.

Can Masai turn this around using our current assets? Sure, it's possible. But I'm not holding my breath.

[peanutwoozle]

I'll grant you the 25% is overstated, but the point I was trying to make is that I would rather take a shot in the lottery (regardless of the actual probability of landing 1st pick), than attempt to build a competitive team knowing you're missing superstar talent.

Can Masai turn this around using our current assets? Sure, it's possible. But I'm not holding my breath.

One thing I know is that I wouldn't trade a banner like that for a slim chance at Wiggins. People act like Wiggins was 100% guaranteed, he wasn't, also, looking at the draft class now, what was left? The only other player that has high potential from that draft is Jabari Parker. Philly tanked so hard last year, and got screwed over, if we had the worst record, that's probably where we would have been, and ended up with a mix between Greg Oden (injuries) and Eddy Curry (work ethic issues)

[Nilanka]

One thing I know is that I wouldn't trade a banner like that for a slim chance at Wiggins. People act like Wiggins was 100% guaranteed, he wasn't, also, looking at the draft class now, what was left? The only other player that has high potential from that draft is Jabari Parker. Philly tanked so hard last year, and got screwed over, if we had the worst record, that's probably where we would have been, and ended up with a mix between Greg Oden (injuries) and Eddy Curry (work ethic issues)

Just curious....what value does a division banner hold when you're eliminated by a lower seed in the 1st round?

[peanutwoozle]

Just curious....what value does a division banner hold when you're eliminated by a lower seed in the 1st round?

the same value that having the highest number of ping pong balls and moving down 3 spots has.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

the same value that having the highest number of ping pong balls and moving down 3 spots has.

So basically you're saying that the better move would be to tank then, since at the very worst, you're ending up with a "same value" outcome?

[Nilanka]

the same value that having the highest number of ping pong balls and moving down 3 spots has.

I'm asking the question using hindsight.

Let's go back to the start of the 2013-14 season. If I told you then that I can travel into the future and tell you that the next 2 years of not tanking resulted in 2 first round exits, why would you prefer that over a slim chance at Wiggins?