Where do you rank JV among Centers?

[distorsun]

Great comment again.
Especially about Gortat and Drummond.
And Drummond can't hit FTs, plus you really don't know IF he's going to develop offensively. In JV's case, the question is more like how high is his offensive ceiling.
People who never plays bball are saying how awkward is JV in the post. The answer to that "IT DOESN'T MATTER".
As long as he's scoring, the polishing will come later, same with the footwork. Great footwork takes time IF you're not naturally gifted like the Dream or Embib.

People think Gortat is some kind of beast down low and an ALL star (he's not, DMC is and JV will).
Wait til next series and you will see how much Raps truly sucked donkey balls in that series. We made the WIZ team look like the DREAM team. We really did!

But Drummond isn't nearly as good offensively. So it's basically a wash in my books. Drummond gets a lot more opportunity to score because his team tries to get him more involved than the Raps, but his %s aren't nearly as good cause JV is way more polished.

You also need to check out Gortat's regular season stats, cause you are letting the playoffs completely warp your perspective.


Don't forget, JV is already on a great path for his position.
http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...295#post366295

[white men can't jump]

I think he's currently top 15 and hopefully he'll be top 10 next season

My list
Top 15 Centers
1 Marc Gasol
2 DeMarcus Cousins
3 DeAndre Jordon
4 Dwight Howard
5 Al Horford
6 Brook Lopez
7 Nikola Vucevic
8 Rudy Gobert
9 Joakim noah
10 Andrew Bogut
11 Tyson Chandler
12 Andre Drummond
13 Marcin Gortat
14 Hassan Whiteside
15 Jonas Valanciunas

For the 15th spot some could even argue Robin Lopez deserves it more than JV


EDIT: Roy Hibbert

I would put Noah and Bogut a bit higher. Probably at 6 and 7.

Vuc is a beast on a terrible team. Hardest one to judge. Great offensive player who rebounds...but he's a been very weak defensively in pretty much every way so far.

Gobert and Whiteside are a bit hard to judge due to small samples. So they may be over/under valued here.

Basically I'd bump the vets up a bit, and I'd say there's very little gap between a fair chunk of guys, probably after the top 5 or so. Lots of guys with some kind of flaws or limitations in their game. Jonas is somewhere in that 10-15 range, but could easily jump a lot of guys with slight improvements on both ends.

**I'd not count Horford if possible even though he plays C because he's played out of position his whole career. Just need to watch the current playoffs to see that it really IS a problem having him play C, because he can simply have trouble with a big C who's skilled, like Lopez. But anyway, lets since he does start there.

**I'd also probably flip Jordan and Howard. Jordan's become one of the best defensive/rebounding Cs in the game (maybe the best), but he's horribly limited offensively and will always be the 5th option on the floor. His D carries his rank, but two-way guys should be higher (which is similarly why i think Bogut and Noah should be bumped up ahead of guys like Brook and Vuc). Being able to carry a decent, possibly significant offensive load is a huge asset.

[The_Warlord]

Here's my trade value ranking follow Simmons' rules of thumb

Marc Gasol Can't see Memphis accepting a 1 for 1 trade for any of the players below
DeMarcus Cousins Most dominant C alive, precarious situation in SAC
Rudy Gobert Just scratching potential - rookie contract
Karl Towns Sky's the limit
DeAndre Jordan Lots of years left, still getting better
Jahlil Okafor Better all around Big Al is pretty damn good
Dwight Howard Can make big swing up or down in the next couple months
Andre Drummond Still raw but very high potential, ceiling is so much higher than JV but larger risk
Jonas Valunciunas Not sure if I would trade for anyone below.. Maybe just a homer
Joel Embiid Injury concerns, could be top 3 by end of next season
Brook Lopez Underrated but needs team to be constructed around him
Al Horford Great player in his prime, good contract, probably not a C; couldn't guard most of these guys single coverage
Nikola Vucevic No inside presence, great numbers
Hassan Whiteside Headcase risk
Jusuf Nurkic Not so familiar with his game but seems to be valued prospect
Willie Caulie-Stein Peak Tyson Chandler in 5 years
Tyson Chandler Getting up there in age
Nerlens Noel Defensive impact player, might not be a true C
Andrew Bogut A winner, not an impact player on offense
Joakim Noah Seems to be breaking down
Marcin Gortat Current league average C
Al Jefferson Twilight years

[hotfuzz]

Here's my trade value ranking follow Simmons' rules of thumb

Marc Gasol Can't see Memphis accepting a 1 for 1 trade for any of the players below
DeMarcus Cousins Most dominant C alive, precarious situation in SAC
Rudy Gobert Just scratching potential - rookie contract
Karl Towns Sky's the limit
DeAndre Jordan Lots of years left, still getting better
Jahlil Okafor Better all around Big Al is pretty damn good
Dwight Howard Can make big swing up or down in the next couple months
Andre Drummond Still raw but very high potential, ceiling is so much higher than JV but larger risk
Jonas Valunciunas Not sure if I would trade for anyone below.. Maybe just a homer
Joel Embiid Injury concerns, could be top 3 by end of next season
Brook Lopez Underrated but needs team to be constructed around him
Al Horford Great player in his prime, good contract, probably not a C; couldn't guard most of these guys single coverage
Nikola Vucevic No inside presence, great numbers
Hassan Whiteside Headcase risk
Jusuf Nurkic Not so familiar with his game but seems to be valued prospect
Willie Caulie-Stein Peak Tyson Chandler in 5 years
Tyson Chandler Getting up there in age
Nerlens Noel Defensive impact player, might not be a true C
Andrew Bogut A winner, not an impact player on offense
Joakim Noah Seems to be breaking down
Marcin Gortat Current league average C
Al Jefferson Twilight years

Depends on what the Raptors intend to do. If rebuilding, I wouldn't mind trading JV for Embiid, but I don't think the sixers do it.

[white men can't jump]

Depends on what the Raptors intend to do. If rebuilding, I wouldn't mind trading JV for Embiid, but I don't think the sixers do it.

Embiid's a tough sell. He has the tools to be a monster. But there's enough risk that he could be a total bust just based on injuries. He's a young big man who's already struggling with foot and back issues, two things that often shorten/destroy careers. I'd struggle to trade any good piece for such a guy.

[peanutwoozle]

Embiid's a tough sell. He has the tools to be a monster. But there's enough risk that he could be a total bust just based on injuries. He's a young big man who's already struggling with foot and back issues, two things that often shorten/destroy careers. I'd struggle to trade any good piece for such a guy.

not to mention work ethic issues as well.

[2KJ]

JV is currently top 15 but he has huge potential to be a top 10 or even top 5. He has the size, fundamental post up game, and is a good FT shooter. It really depends on how the Raptors are gonna use him, which is why I will always prefer a pass-first pg.

So far, the current system wants to make JV into a Tyson Chandler/DeAndre Jordan type but he's more of an Andrew Bynum/Brook Lopez. Not sure what Magloire really does but JV needs a Kareem or Ewing to coach and mentor him.

[Abbas]

JV is currently top 15 but he has huge potential to be a top 10 or even top 5. He has the size, fundamental post up game, and is a good FT shooter. It really depends on how the Raptors are gonna use him, which is why I will always prefer a pass-first pg.

So far, the current system wants to make JV into a Tyson Chandler/DeAndre Jordan type but he's more of an Andrew Bynum/Brook Lopez. Not sure what Magloire really does but JV needs a Kareem or Ewing to coach and mentor him.

A (Lawson-Derzaon-Khris.M-Kenneth.F-JV) sounds sooo GREAT

Pass first PG
Amazing at getting to the line SG
Near elite 3P shooter
Hustle Player who rebounds great
Post-up Big man

[hotfuzz]

A (Lawson-Derzaon-Khris.M-Kenneth.F-JV) sounds sooo GREAT

Pass first PG
Amazing at getting to the line SG
Near elite 3P shooter
Hustle Player who rebounds great
Post-up Big man

That's a middle of the road team that wouldn't ever make a deep playoff run.

[Abbas]

That's a middle of the road team that wouldn't ever make a deep playoff run.

That team will be better then the team we have right now

And with that team we will have a shit ton of cap space to spend it on our bench

Add people like
- Noris Cole
- Marco Belinelli
- JJ
- Ed Davis
- Parkins

Now that team will have some vets/experienced-players and it will have some youngsters who have talent

So yes they could make a deep playoff run

[007]

That's a middle of the road team that wouldn't ever make a deep playoff run.

It's better than our team...

Lowry > than Lawson when Lowry's on point, but Lawson >>>> Playoff Lowry
DD
Middleton > Ross
Faried > Amir
JV

[hotfuzz]

It's better than our team...

Lowry > than Lawson when Lowry's on point, but Lawson >>>> Playoff Lowry
DD
Middleton > Ross
Faried > Amir
JV

Sure, but it's still not good enough to make a deep run.

[tDotted]

Sure, but it's still not good enough to make a deep run.

In this year's East? Definitely can.

[Abbas]

Sure, but it's still not good enough to make a deep run.

Yes man They can

And plus next season Derozan and JV will be a step better. Add a near allstar pass first pg, elite 3p shooter, very good re bounder/hustle player and a veteran bench you can a contender in the East

[DanH]

Pretty darn high. I've been going over his post-up stats and he's already scary good, even with his limited number of moves.