There has never been a better time to rebuild than right now

[Primer]

I feel like you guys say every year is the perfect year to rebuild...

I was anti tank for Wiggins, and really wanted to see what this team could do with a full season together. Unfortunately, the results were not so good. Time to do something about it.

[Mess]

I posted this in the other rebuilding thread, but applies even moreso to this one...

The stars really are potentially aligning for a 1-year rebuild (tank):
- 2015 #20 pick
- trade DeRozan for 2015 top-10 pick
- trade Lowry for 2015 top-10 pick
- tank to move 2016 pick into the lottery (pray for luck with the ping pong balls)
- hope Denver & NYK are lottery teams, since Toronto gets the worse of their 2016 1st round picks
- huge cap space in 2015 and/or 2016

The Raptors could quite possibly add the following to the roster, after just 1 step-back season:
- 4 lottery picks
- 1 #20 pick
- 1 max player

A core of JV, 4 lottery picks, another 1st round pick and 1 max player. That's 7 young, talented players that could grow together and develop chemistry over the next 4-8 seasons. Add a couple savvy veterans to mentor them, and I can't see how that roster wouldn't be looking far better than the current one, even if all the picks don't wind up panning out. Of course, a new head coach is also needed, who can focus on player development and installing a team-oriented offensive system.

The Raptors could also use a combination of draft picks and other assets (ie: Patterson, Ross, Bruno) to go in another direction:
- bundle assets to move up in 2015 and/or 2016 draft
- make a Houston-esque trade for a potential superstar player

There are so many avenues available to rebuild this team relatively quickly, loaded with young talent for sustainable long-term success, by unloading DeRozan & Lowry at peak value.

Obviously there is risk involved, but scouting and drafting are supposedly MU's greatest strengths, so it's all about trusting him. I think the potential rewards outweigh the risks, especially when the current roster with the DeRozan/Lowry core seems to have 1st round fodder (maybe 2nd round fodder) as its ceiling.

How is that a bad team for just a single season? How competitive would 4 lottery picks in their 1st (1) & 2nd (3) seasons actually be? Also, this hypothetical max player...if he's a true in-his-prime max player then you're banking on there not being a more attractive spot then Toronto with its young players who are likely not ready to compete. If he's a younger max player just off his rookie deal then there must be a reason the team that drafted him won't keep him around (probably cause you'd have to overpay him).

And you'd likely have to overpay to bring in any worthwhile vets that aren't castoffs from other teams.


You can absolutely not expect and depend on one of those draft picks being a player like Lebron, AD, or KD. I think that's the foundation of all these tanking dreams but it's foolish. Just wait and see how many lottery picks the 76ers cycle through before they land (if they land) an all-time franchise player.

It's a lot easier to tell someone else they should sell their car and spend all the proceeds on lottery tickets when you won't be the one who ends up having to walk to work everyday.

[Mess]

8) someone is in charge who is finally going to exercise patience and keep the foot off the accelerator until it is ready. The raptors were doomed to a low ceiling (which they have now reached) as soon as they accelerated the rebuild due to timing with the expiration of colangelo's contract.



Making the playoffs is easy - that is what Masai said. I'm not content to just be a speed bump for the contenders. Time to build on a solid foundation.

I don't think Masai ever "put his foot on the accelerator." I would say he started decelerating with the Bargs and Gay trades, then when the Raptors unexpectedly picked up speed (you could say due to the East being downhill) he's been coasting along ever since. He didn't slam on the brakes like many here want. But he didn't accelerate anything.

[Primer]

I don't think Masai ever "put his foot on the accelerator." I would say he started decelerating with the Bargs and Gay trades, then when the Raptors unexpectedly picked up speed (you could say due to the East being downhill) he's been coasting along ever since. He didn't slam on the brakes like many here want. But he didn't accelerate anything.

Seems pretty clear to me he said Masai has never put his foot on the accelerator, in a comparison to colangelo who tried to hammer the accelerator every offseason. So you think you're arguing with him when you're really agreeing with him.

[Mack North]

I'm in on the whole rebuild thing. The ceiling of this team with DeMar and Lowry as the star players is second round at best, imo. Whether or not the teams in the mid-lottery would trade the pick and a decent prospect for these guys, that's another question. Unless you can pair a star or two with KL and DD, this team isn't going very far.

It sounds like a great plan and I'd love to see a bunch of new kids on the team to build a promising future, I'm just not gonna get too excited about it because it's out of our hands. It's be nice if Masai or one of his lackey's would read this plan... who knows, it's these guys jobs so I'm sure there's already been talk of it.

[Mess]

Seems pretty clear to me he said Masai has never put his foot on the accelerator, in a comparison to colangelo who tried to hammer the accelerator every offseason. So you think you're arguing with him when you're really agreeing with him.

Hm, true. Didn't read it as carefully as I should have.

[stooley]

I'm in on the whole rebuild thing. The ceiling of this team with DeMar and Lowry as the star players is second round at best, imo. Whether or not the teams in the mid-lottery would trade the pick and a decent prospect for these guys, that's another question. Unless you can pair a star or two with KL and DD, this team isn't going very far.

It sounds like a great plan and I'd love to see a bunch of new kids on the team to build a promising future, I'm just not gonna get too excited about it because it's out of our hands. It's be nice if Masai or one of his lackey's would read this plan... who knows, it's these guys jobs so I'm sure there's already been talk of it.

I think that core with the right pieces could beat this year's Houston or Atlanta

[Bandit]

I think that core with the right pieces could beat this year's Houston or Atlanta

I'm honestly not sure if they beat this year's NOP much less Hou

[stooley]

I'm honestly not sure if they beat this year's NOP much less Hou

You and everyone else is basing that on the last couple of months. Our best player played like crap. Sources cited the flu and injuries. If that's true, our ceiling with that core is a lot closer to the team from the first few months.

With better complimentary pieces and an improved Jonas, it's very different

[Bandit]

You and everyone else is basing that on the last couple of months. Our best player played like crap. Sources cited the flu and injuries. If that's true, our ceiling with that core is a lot closer to the team from the first few months.

With better complimentary pieces and an improved Jonas, it's very different

100% agree. And I believe that the true level of play is somewhere in between those two extremes.

However you have an ageing Lowry with a style of play that invites injury and Demar with his well chronicled shortcomings. JV is the mystery piece and who knows what we can expect from him.

Now sure, if we added some better complimentary pieces we could improve. The catch of course being that your core is Lowry/DD/JV so you cannot add anyone who will contribute more then those three to your team. I can't see how you can add enough talent in this scenario to beat even the worst in the west.

[stooley]

100% agree. And I believe that the true level of play is somewhere in between those two extremes.

However you have an ageing Lowry with a style of play that invites injury and Demar with his well chronicled shortcomings. JV is the mystery piece and who knows what we can expect from him.

Now sure, if we added some better complimentary pieces we could improve. The catch of course being that your core is Lowry/DD/JV so you cannot add anyone who will contribute more then those three to your team. I can't see how you can add enough talent in this scenario to beat even the worst in the west.

That core was pretty awesome.

I think you add a Trevor ariza , hold about even at pf, get a hit on a couple draft picks and that teams ceiling is in the money.

[slaw]

I feel like you guys say every year is the perfect year to rebuild...

When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

How is that a bad team for just a single season? How competitive would 4 lottery picks in their 1st (1) & 2nd (3) seasons actually be? Also, this hypothetical max player...if he's a true in-his-prime max player then you're banking on there not being a more attractive spot then Toronto with its young players who are likely not ready to compete. If he's a younger max player just off his rookie deal then there must be a reason the team that drafted him won't keep him around (probably cause you'd have to overpay him).

And you'd likely have to overpay to bring in any worthwhile vets that aren't castoffs from other teams.


You can absolutely not expect and depend on one of those draft picks being a player like Lebron, AD, or KD. I think that's the foundation of all these tanking dreams but it's foolish. Just wait and see how many lottery picks the 76ers cycle through before they land (if they land) an all-time franchise player.

It's a lot easier to tell someone else they should sell their car and spend all the proceeds on lottery tickets when you won't be the one who ends up having to walk to work everyday.

I never implied that a KD/LBJ franchise talent would be found. I think that having that many chances at top-tier talent in back-to-back drafts, to add alongside JV, would be the best way to build the most talented team possible, that would have years to develop together. All those pieces also have significant market value, should MU decide to cash them in, which is another avenue I mentioned.

In previous posts in the other rebuild thread, I had mentioned that it might be as little as a 1-year rebuild plan, but it would likely be more like a 2-3 year plan.

I also mentioned that the cap space would be available to add a max talent (or multiple lower priced players), as a means of further adding to the young, talented core group of players. It was really just meant to illustrate how multiple quality (ie: young, talented, high upside, high market value around the league) pieces could be accumulated. The idea is that trading DeRozan and Lowry is not just about the trades themselves.


To follow your metaphor, DeRozan is more like a Hummer, in that it's an inefficient gas-guzzler that's just getting more and more expensive, while becoming less and less desirable. Lowry is the aging car that you've had good times with, but is starting to rust, the wheels are bald, the engine's going, and that wonky transmission is becoming harder to ignore. When you look around and see lots of other dealerships (teams) having sales, and you're holding some pretty good discount coupons (Den/NYK 1st round pick), suddenly it's looking like a pretty good time to look for a new, higher quality, more affordable car that is going to take you places in the next decade that you've never been before!

[OldSkoolCool]

Why?

1) Do it by choice or be forced...yet again. Lowry is approaching wrong side of 30 and he has never put it together for a full season. derozan can leave next year for nothing or worse he gets paid the max. 6th man of the year is available to a playoff team in need of scoring punch via sign and trade. Do not forget this is not a young team despite what some say. The youth don't play and the youngest starters are routinely jerked around.

2) valuable trade pieces. The raptors have guys with value. Kickstart a rebuild with the benefits of multiple losing seasons....without the losing. The subsequent losing that follows is almost assured to be much shorter due to selling high in players in their prime.

3) For the first time in years there are not many teams actively looking to suck. Philly, Minny, and possibly Denver - that's it. NY, Sacramento, orlando, Detroit, Charlotte, Miami, Indiana, Utah, Phoenix, OKC - all lottery teams all either tired of being in the lottery or looking to put injuries behind them and get back to the playoffs. Boston, brooklyn, Milwaukee, New Orleans all looking to stay in playoffs and in case of milwaukee, New Orleans, and Boston - get better too.

4) With a DLeague team apparently coming next season, a great opportunity to maximize youth opportunity to play. Teams like Houston and Phoenix have routinely rotated a platoon of players to DLeague. Remember you can only have two players off roster in DLeague at one time but you can have players who you own the rights to.

5) the salary cap boom and hangover sure to follow. Everyone knows the cap is rising drastically next year and again the following season. Just as everyone rushed to tank for the draft class of 2014, everyone is clearing cap space for 2016. In 2018 (just 3 seasons away) the cap is actually projected to decline. What a great time to capitalize on the teams that spent like drunken sailors that is sure to make a sailor blush. The raptors could be in position to offer multiple max contracts.

6) capitalizing on the draft. Assuming lowry and DeRozan could return lotto picks, the raps would have 2 lotto picks this year, likely 2 lotto picks next year, plus Bruno, Bebe, and 20 this year. All of those contracts are going to be even bigger bargains in the new cap era.

7) the hardest position to fill is set for 5 years and he is just 23. Tying in the whole big men take longer to develop, JV is just turned 23 and will enter his prime with a cast of youth. If a better C is found via draft, you have a great trade chip.

8) someone is in charge who is finally going to exercise patience and keep the foot off the accelerator until it is ready. The raptors were doomed to a low ceiling (which they have now reached) as soon as they accelerated the rebuild due to timing with the expiration of colangelo's contract.



Making the playoffs is easy - that is what Masai said. I'm not content to just be a speed bump for the contenders. Time to build on a solid foundation.

One additional point: rookie scale contracts, as defined in the current CBA, are good value deals. Under the new 89 and then 108M caps, they will be amazing value deals. For example, the top pick makes 5M or so. Under the 89M cap, you could have 4 top 5 picks signed for under 20M, plus a guy like JV on a 16M deal, and have about 50M in cap room, enough for two max players at 25M each (7-9 year vets).

In 2017, the CBA will be renegotiated, and the rookie scale may change and be adjusted up to match the new cap levels. So these super value deals will be signed this summer off the 2015 draft and next summer after the 2016 draft. In other words, high end draft picks (and low end, actually) this year and next will be the highest value pieces to ever exist in the NBA. The same might not be able to be said about top picks in 2017 and later. Plus the 2017 draft might be hurt by lockout shyness.

The time is now - this draft and next.

I've wanted to do a rebuilding because I can see what is wrong with the team but have never sat down and wrote it out.

Seeing the quantified pieces of the mystery puzzle makes a very compelling set of supporting info for going the rebuild.

[Mack North]

I think that core with the right pieces could beat this year's Houston or Atlanta

We wanna get to the point where we're battling the Cleveland's and the Warriors' though. Trevor Ariza and a few late first rounders isn't going to do that.