For those who want to keep core and add to it

[octothorp]

Just to play devil's advocate here, if I was looking to keep and build around the current core, I think it wouldn't be about maxing out Middleton or a similar guy this year, but instead keeping the team positioned to be a major player in next year's free agent frenzy. That big cap increase screws with the Raptors because any shot of stealing away an RFA this summer went out the window, now that teams can match just about anything this year, suffer through one year of overpaying, and then have a contract that looks pretty good on the new NBA landscape.
Arguably, the best way to be a player in next summer's free agent market is to maintain the status quo another year, bring in some one-year deals that will be expiring next year, and then try to sell a star player on coming to a top-four-in-the-east with an intact core, on the argument that they can be the piece that makes this team an eastern-conference contender. If the team struggles next year, you hang the blame on Casey, and bring in a popular players' coach.

Not that this is the approach that I'd prefer. I'd be all about firing Casey, bringing in a offensively creative coach (or let Nurse take over), trade Lowry for picks and prospects, and taking a step back next year even if it means being a less-appealing free agent draw next summer). I just think that the offering Middleton a max, despite being an option talked about a lot on these forums, isn't likely option #1 for Ujiri, even if a build-around-the-core model is what he has in mind.

[Primer]

For SF, I honestly, would just play JJ as starting 3 but again there is tension between him and the coach. I'd try to trade for a filler somewhat talented SF. Theres not too many on the market right now. I would wait until next year to upgrade the SF and offer a max deal for H. Barnes and see what GS does. If not, we can draft one, hopefully, next year.

Its hard to measure Philly because their team is so terrible, and wouldn't steal anyone on their roster unless it was one of their coveted rookies.

I personally wouldn't overpay for a Middleton and a Taj Gibson. I think they're great players but not game changers.

For PG, we can steal and pay Joseph somewhere in the 6-8 million range because spurs are offering him 3.5 million ATM. Joseph is one of my favourite PGS… lol, I hope we get him.

Yea, I totally agree we should deal Lowry rather than Derozan. Send him home to Houston. They like him and want him.

I think we need to take incremental steps to become a winning brand. Although last year we took a step back. Or two. A new Head coach should be a full priority for Masai but Idk why he hasn't pulled the trigger on Casey.

The reason I still believe in Masai though is because he's made a lot of very good decisions. Short term deals to keep financial flexibility. Trading away deadweight contracts and players who were hindering our team. Not rolling the dice at the trade deadline to take any long term financial contracts. Resisting certain offers and not getting full value for our assets and players. However, there is still a lot more that needs to be done in order for us to become a good team.

Middleton is better than Barnes in my opinion. They're close enough that if one is worth the max the other is too.

If we get Joseph at that price we need to move a PG, preferably GV.

I'd so much rather deal Derozan than Lowry. Lowry gets wins for the team and has been a top 30 player in the NBA the past two seasons. Derozan isn't even a top 100 player. Lowry is also signed long term on a cheap deal, Derozan is about to cost a lot more than he's worth. The only argument to deal Lowry instead would be that Lowry can bring back so much more in trade than Derozan can, which might be true.

[Just Is]

Middleton is better than Barnes in my opinion. They're close enough that if one is worth the max the other is too.

If we get Joseph at that price we need to move a PG, preferably GV.

I'd so much rather deal Derozan than Lowry. Lowry gets wins for the team and has been a top 30 player in the NBA the past two seasons. Derozan isn't even a top 100 player. Lowry is also signed long term on a cheap deal, Derozan is about to cost a lot more than he's worth. The only argument to deal Lowry instead would be that Lowry can bring back so much more in trade than Derozan can, which might be true.

I agree that Middleton is better than Barnes. I do think that Barnes is a LOT more gettable then Middleton.

We've invested a lot of money into GV; getting another one at around that price essentially means you've either got to move him since neither he nor Joseph are good enough to be full time starters.

I honestly can't imagine why reason anyone would honestly prefer to deal Lowry over DeRozan outside of Lowry getting back a better return. Even ignoring the fact that Lowry is a much better player between the two, moving Lowry hurts the team significantly more than moving DeRozan. Not to mention that that would also make it much more likely that you would have to overpay to keep DeRozan next year since the team will take a very large step backwards.

[raptors999]

I agree that Middleton is better than Barnes. I do think that Barnes is a LOT more gettable then Middleton.

We've invested a lot of money into GV; getting another one at around that price essentially means you've either got to move him or play him exclusively at SG.

I honestly can't imagine why reason anyone would honestly prefer to deal Lowry over DeRozan outside of Lowry getting back a better return. Even ignoring the fact that Lowry is a much better player between the two, moving Lowry hurts the team significantly more than moving DeRozan. Not to mention that that would also make it much more likely that you would have to overpay to keep DeRozan next year since the team will take a very large step backwards.

Middleton is an RFA, Barnes is not. Strike out on Middleton then try for Barnes next season.

[Just Is]

Middleton is an RFA, Barnes is not. Strike out on Middleton then try for Barnes next season.

Barnes I meant was gettable in the sense that "trade for" sense since GS will likely be trying to avoid the repeater tax after next season.

[raptors999]

Barnes I meant was gettable in the sense that "trade for" sense since GS will likely be trying to avoid the repeater tax after next season.

GSW would move either Iggy or Lee before Barnes if they want to avoid the tax. Barnes is still on his rookie deal and the cap is set to go uo. Moving either big contracts helps more

[Just Is]

GSW would move either Iggy or Lee before Barnes if they want to avoid the tax. Barnes is still on his rookie deal and the cap is set to go uo. Moving either big contracts helps more

Good point on Lee but I don't think GS is going to want to move Iggy (especially after his showing this post season).

[Bear]

GSW would move either Iggy or Lee before Barnes if they want to avoid the tax. Barnes is still on his rookie deal and the cap is set to go uo. Moving either big contracts helps more

no one is gonna take lee without some incentive though, that is where a guy like Barnes comes in

[BS10]

Middleton is better than Barnes in my opinion. They're close enough that if one is worth the max the other is too.

If we get Joseph at that price we need to move a PG, preferably GV.

I'd so much rather deal Derozan than Lowry. Lowry gets wins for the team and has been a top 30 player in the NBA the past two seasons. Derozan isn't even a top 100 player. Lowry is also signed long term on a cheap deal, Derozan is about to cost a lot more than he's worth. The only argument to deal Lowry instead would be that Lowry can bring back so much more in trade than Derozan can, which might be true.

I still think Barnes potential is much higher than Middletons and the thing is Barnes is GS's 3rd-4th option for scoring for the warriors. I think Barnes has another level that he can reach. Thats the only reason I'd pay him the max. I think if he joins the Raptors we can make him a 1st-2nd scoring option if we deal Lowry or Derozan.

Lowry has actually been my favourite raptor because I feel he's our smartest player. Smart, has heart, floor general, leader, mental toughness, gritty etc… He has all those qualities and more. However, you're right I think we get a lot more value out of him. Thats why we trade him. We double our return.

One of the positives for dealing Derozan is we would be able to get rid of Casey as well. I read an article that said Casey sees Derozan as like a son and I believe thats why Derozan gets special treatment from Casey. These two have got to go.

One of the problems though with trading Derozan is who do we get back in return? Who is going to replace him on our starting line up? And who wants Derozan that would be willing to give up some valuable asset(s)?

The only guy that I see as a good fit would be Danny green. But Green is partially a product of his environment and the reason he flourished was because he played in Pop's System. So his value is inflated.

Personally, I'd trade Derozan to the Hawks for Bazemore + 2 first round picks. I know this would put off most Rap's fans but I like Bazemore's potential and his mental toughness. But thats just me.

[Primer]

GSW would move either Iggy or Lee before Barnes if they want to avoid the tax. Barnes is still on his rookie deal and the cap is set to go uo. Moving either big contracts helps more

Of course that's what GSW would want, but no one wants those contracts. Barnes is a very desirable asset to pretty much every team in the league. Lee and Iggy are terrible contracts and declining players. I don't see any takers unless GSW throw in some serious sweeteners.

[Primer]

I still think Barnes potential is much higher than Middletons and the thing is Barnes is GS's 3rd-4th option for scoring for the warriors. I think Barnes has another level that he can reach. Thats the only reason I'd pay him the max. I think if he joins the Raptors we can make him a 1st-2nd scoring option if we deal Lowry or Derozan.

Lowry has actually been my favourite raptor because I feel he's our smartest player. Smart, has heart, floor general, leader, mental toughness, gritty etc… He has all those qualities and more. However, you're right I think we get a lot more value out of him. Thats why we trade him. We double our return.

One of the positives for dealing Derozan is we would be able to get rid of Casey as well. I read an article that said Casey sees Derozan as like a son and I believe thats why Derozan gets special treatment from Casey. These two have got to go.

One of the problems though with trading Derozan is who do we get back in return? Who is going to replace him on our starting line up? And who wants Derozan that would be willing to give up some valuable asset(s)?

The only guy that I see as a good fit would be Danny green. But Green is partially a product of his environment and the reason he flourished was because he played in Pop's System. So his value is inflated.

Personally, I'd trade Derozan to the Hawks for Bazemore + 2 first round picks. I know this would put off most Rap's fans but I like Bazemore's potential and his mental toughness. But thats just me.

Middleton is seemingly the 3rd option on Milwaukee, at least while they still had Knight and Parker. He's freakily comparable to Barnes. Same age, same size, very similar production. I stand by that if one is worth the max, so is the other.

Who we get back in return for trading Derozan could be a multitude of different things. It could be Calderon and the #4 pick ideally. It's hard to pin down who would be interested in Derozan (a great argument against paying DD a ton of money). Ross could replace him in our starting lineup, and so could a free agent like Danny Green. A SG who can shoot 3's would be pretty damn nice, and they don't need to get all of Derozan's shots, because it's way too many.

I don't think Green's value is inflated, I think it's just right. I have no idea why everyone thinks all the players on San Antonio would suck if they played somewhere else, it makes no fucking sense to me. Is Danny Green all of a sudden forget how to hit 3's and defend? I don't think so. Can Danny Green be awesome at iso? No, but neither is Derozan, so just get rid of iso. Green is better than Derozan at everything except drawing fouls.

I doubt the Hawks have any interest in Derozan. Their offense requires shooters, and their current SG is one of the greatest shooters ever in Korver. Derozan would fuck that offense all up.

[BS10]

Middleton is seemingly the 3rd option on Milwaukee, at least while they still had Knight and Parker. He's freakily comparable to Barnes. Same age, same size, very similar production. I stand by that if one is worth the max, so is the other.

Who we get back in return for trading Derozan could be a multitude of different things. It could be Calderon and the #4 pick ideally. It's hard to pin down who would be interested in Derozan (a great argument against paying DD a ton of money). Ross could replace him in our starting lineup, and so could a free agent like Danny Green. A SG who can shoot 3's would be pretty damn nice, and they don't need to get all of Derozan's shots, because it's way too many.

I don't think Green's value is inflated, I think it's just right. I have no idea why everyone thinks all the players on San Antonio would suck if they played somewhere else, it makes no fucking sense to me. Is Danny Green all of a sudden forget how to hit 3's and defend? I don't think so. Can Danny Green be awesome at iso? No, but neither is Derozan, so just get rid of iso. Green is better than Derozan at everything except drawing fouls.

I doubt the Hawks have any interest in Derozan. Their offense requires shooters, and their current SG is one of the greatest shooters ever in Korver. Derozan would fuck that offense all up.

I wasn't saying SA players would suck without their system but their system enhances their value. Pop's system allows their players to get good shots, and play more effectively overall. If Green came over here, would he be as effective in Caseys system (or lack of) as he was on the Spurs? Prob not.

I think i should have used the word enhanced rather than inflated.

Yea, hawks would probably not want Derozan. I was thinking more from our vantage point of who we could get back with some value for Derozan.

I do like the idea of Ross playing the 2 though if we do decide to keep him. That role would better suit him.

[raptors999]

Of course that's what GSW would want, but no one wants those contracts. Barnes is a very desirable asset to pretty much every team in the league. Lee and Iggy are terrible contracts and declining players. I don't see any takers unless GSW throw in some serious sweeteners.

Barnes is still cheap. There is no financial reason to dump him. Next season they could move him before he gets extended or they roll the dice in RFA

[McRealistic]

Barnes is still cheap. There is no financial reason to dump him. Next season they could move him before he gets extended or they roll the dice in RFA

Nicely said. GSW does not need to trade Barns when he is so affordable right now. They are also very happy with Iggy coming off the bench for them. He is helping them with all kind of different things on the floor. Lee will be an expiring contracts that they can move closer to the trade deadline.

GSW is going to go after KD hard .

[DanH]

There's no way GSW moves Barnes. When he needs a pay raise Lee will be off the books and the cap will skyrocket - they couldn't hit the repeater tax if they tried to.