Masai : "I've made a huge mistake" (sort of)

[planetmars]

But it was! Third best in the league. So doesn't that mean that, at least on the offensive end, what the team was do was working?

Should also be noted:

Vasquez assist% (according to NBA.com) this past season 24.2%, last season 27.9

The better question in my opinion would be is this type of offensive system sustainable.. and be a success in the playoffs? The playoffs is when it really matters, and the Raptors lost 0-4 to a subpar team (at least based on standings).

[Mindlessness]

But it was! Third best in the league. So doesn't that mean that, at least on the offensive end, what the team was do was working?

Should also be noted:

Vasquez assist% (according to NBA.com) this past season 24.2%, last season 27.9

Uh, I dunno if you noticed but that 3rd best in the league rating did not translate to the playoffs. Suggests, y'know, a lot of things (i.e. lolnope that ain't working unless you have LeBron).

Also, I think @bballbreakdown mentioned somewhere that we did a lot of damage against bottom 10 defenses, which helped that amazing ORTG.

[Nilanka]

Interesting tidbit from latest Sheridan Hoops Mock Draft. Makes sense to me that he'd feel this way. Could make for an exciting draft or July at the very least

"According to several executives I spoke with, the Toronto Raptors are actively exploring trades for All-Star guard Kyle Lowry, former All-Star DeMar DeRozan and even Jonas Valanciunas, who is up for an extension this summer. According to these sources, Raptors GM Masai Ujiri wants to blow up this roster because he believes it has reached its ceiling, even in the weak East."

Read more at http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/06...sZPgIGQ1zKt.99

Burn that shit to the ground!

[S.R.]

Burn that shit to the ground!

[Mess]

For what it's worth, "actively exploring trades" is not the same as the "shopping" you hear other teams doing.

[GarbageTime]

The better question in my opinion would be is this type of offensive system sustainable.. and be a success in the playoffs?

I'm not claiming it is necessarily sustainable, but thats not the discussion as I understand it anyways. This is about the effectiveness of these players (and as an extension ISO) this past year.

The playoffs is when it really matters, and the Raptors lost 0-4 to a subpar team (at least based on standings).

+

Uh, I dunno if you noticed but that 3rd best in the league rating did not translate to the playoffs. Suggests, y'know, a lot of things (i.e. lolnope that ain't working unless you have LeBron).

Also, I think @bballbreakdown mentioned somewhere that we did a lot of damage against bottom 10 defenses, which helped that amazing ORTG.

Explaining the results of the playoffs due to ISO seems overly linear. But regardless:

Not my work, and I'm not going to verify it:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...311#start_here

Basic breakdown - Raptors actually used a lot of PnR.

As for doing damage vs the bottom defenses... probably true. They are in the east after all. But, at the very least half the league benefits equally (half the league is in the east).

[S.R.]

For what it's worth, "actively exploring trades" is not the same as the "shopping" you hear other teams doing.

Yeah, it's basically a non-statement imho. It's the offseason, a day before the draft. Of course your GM is on the phone talking to other GMs about potential transactions. Except for a very, very small number of players (none of them on the Raptors), anybody is available for the right price. Just smoke and speculation so far.

[Superjudge]

If you had a stat that measured all your fancy numbers, only, for "must have" possessions, you'd see where individual efforts start to erode your success rate.

And it ain't measured, because half the people watching don't even know which possessions are "must haves".

Very briefly.... swing possessions, momentum killers, momentum creators, off time outs, off techs. These are the times that you need to be effective, and these are also the times that the opposing defence gets focused. So how do you ensure success here....well 2 ways; one, you Sign Lebron, Curry, Durant....guys of that ilk. Second, if you aren't so lucky as to have a ringer, you develope a seriously well disciplined and balanced offence. 5 guys that can all hurt you in their own way within the flow of the offence, where all five guys are working well and finding the weak spot on each possession.

Stats don't measure when team slack, and when they turn it on...thats all feel, and you need a good eye to see it. But if you can see it, you know it right away when its gone. The entire last season looked different from the one before. I could care less what the numbers read, its what happened on the floor that I am talking about. Teams let Toronto's guards do whatever quite a bit.... and when they defence is light, jumpers fall.... but on key possessions..... heh, it was a shit show.

This aint the coach guys, this is the roster. This is a guy like Williams coming in ans setting a precedent, and a guy like Lowry crumbling in his role as leader the minute another guy comes in and takes al those shots, and this is Demar, being hurt, then coming back and doing the same thing. Casey had this team running well the year before, some of the best basketball I have seen in years in toronto. He didn't forget how to do that.... his guys just werent doing what they were supposed to.

[slaw]

But it was! Third best in the league. So doesn't that mean that, at least on the offensive end, what the team was do was working?

Should also be noted:

Vasquez assist% (according to NBA.com) this past season 24.2%, last season 27.9

Dude, forget it. There is nothing you can do to convince people here that the offense wasn't that bad.

The narrative is that the Raptors offense was terrible and why they got swept in the playoffs. It's as if none of their failures had anything to do with being the 25th ranked defense that gave up an eFG% of over 50% and was 25 in DRB%. And the playoff sweep had little, if anything, to do with giving up 110 PPG on 48% shooting (only 44% from three though!!!) while surrendering offensive rebounds at an astounding OREB 27% for WSH.

[S.R.]

Dude, forget it. There is nothing you can do to convince people here that the offense wasn't that bad.

The narrative is that the Raptors offense was terrible and why they got swept in the playoffs. It's as if none of their failures had anything to do with being the 25th ranked defense that gave up an eFG% of over 50% and was 25 in DRB%. And the playoff sweep had little, if anything, to do with giving up 110 PPG on 48% shooting (only 44% from three though!!!) while surrendering offensive rebounds at an astounding OREB 27% for WSH.

They got stomped at both ends of the floor. The main difference is the defence was bottom third all year, so no surprise when it sucked in the playoffs. The vaunted regular season ORTG though, that fell to 15th of 16 playoff teams, only slightly better than the Bucks, who can't even shoot a basketball.

In general, I'm not sure why offense generates more chatter among basketball fans other than it's a bit easier to see on the floor and it's more interesting for most people. Personally I find an effective team fun to watch at either end of the court. Spurs-Clippers wasn't just a great series when great players made amazing shots, it was also a great series when the defenses executed perfectly and made future HoF offensive players run down the shot clock.

[golden]

If you had a stat that measured all your fancy numbers, only, for "must have" possessions, you'd see where individual efforts start to erode your success rate.

And it ain't measured, because half the people watching don't even know which possessions are "must haves".

Very briefly.... swing possessions, momentum killers, momentum creators, off time outs, off techs. These are the times that you need to be effective, and these are also the times that the opposing defence gets focused. So how do you ensure success here....well 2 ways; one, you Sign Lebron, Curry, Durant....guys of that ilk. Second, if you aren't so lucky as to have a ringer, you develope a seriously well disciplined and balanced offence. 5 guys that can all hurt you in their own way within the flow of the offence, where all five guys are working well and finding the weak spot on each possession.

Stats don't measure when team slack, and when they turn it on...thats all feel, and you need a good eye to see it. But if you can see it, you know it right away when its gone. The entire last season looked different from the one before. I could care less what the numbers read, its what happened on the floor that I am talking about. Teams let Toronto's guards do whatever quite a bit.... and when they defence is light, jumpers fall.... but on key possessions..... heh, it was a shit show.

This aint the coach guys, this is the roster. This is a guy like Williams coming in ans setting a precedent, and a guy like Lowry crumbling in his role as leader the minute another guy comes in and takes al those shots, and this is Demar, being hurt, then coming back and doing the same thing. Casey had this team running well the year before, some of the best basketball I have seen in years in toronto. He didn't forget how to do that.... his guys just werent doing what they were supposed to.

Damn Craig, you're making way too much sense today. lol.

Warriors have both (Curry and flow). I was amazed watching Game 1 & 2 of the Finals, that even in the last minute of tight games that went to overtime, Golden State completely resisted the urge to go ISO. Even with the ball in the hands of their best player, Curry (who can make crazy shots look like layups), he still made the pass. Guys kept making hard cuts, setting picks and they swung the ball to the open man in the corner (Barnes and Iggy), who made shots. Basically, Steve Kerr and Curry made a decision that they were going to run their offense come hell or high water, make the right basketball play and trust the non-stars to make plays. And those non-star players stayed engaged (instead of standing around watching ISO) and received the ball in the flow of the offense in their regular sweet spots - no different than in the 2nd quarter of a regular season game. There was no panic by GSW and I loved watching that.

[Mess]

https://youtu.be/TjWRC6nuBXI?t=2m38s

[OldSkoolCool]

I'm not claiming it is necessarily sustainable, but thats not the discussion as I understand it anyways. This is about the effectiveness of these players (and as an extension ISO) this past year.



+



Explaining the results of the playoffs due to ISO seems overly linear. But regardless:

Not my work, and I'm not going to verify it:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...311#start_here

Basic breakdown - Raptors actually used a lot of PnR.

As for doing damage vs the bottom defenses... probably true. They are in the east after all. But, at the very least half the league benefits equally (half the league is in the east).

100% agree

Statistically they used lots

However 99.99999% of the time the possession ended with the guard going all the way or chucking up a long two. What makes the PnR the best basketball play is the pass to the rolling big man after the separation.

It is more like:

"The Raptors ran a lot of high screens and never passed to the roller or pop-er"

[Superjudge]

Damn Craig, you're making way too much sense today. lol.

I always do.

[distorsun]

IT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.
I actually did look into this earlier this year and the only successful team which kinda resemble the Raps was....drum rolllll..
.....
Scott Brook's OKC THUNDER.

Everyone else were non-playoff teams.
.....

In other words, you can get away with it IF you have guys like Durant + Westbrook.
I love DD and Lowry; but they are not exactly at the same level...not quite!

The better question in my opinion would be is this type of offensive system sustainable.. and be a success in the playoffs? The playoffs is when it really matters, and the Raptors lost 0-4 to a subpar team (at least based on standings).