Poeltl & Pascal - The 2016 Draft

[big boi]

Steve Nash was Canadian too. Not a very good defensive player but made up for it with effort. Not a freak athlete. He wasn't good or bad because he was Canadian he was just a really good point guard who wouldn't have wowed anyone at a combine. He could shoot, had good handle and he had that 'it' factor. 2 time MVP. I believe both Canadian teams passed on him.

I think Jamal could be top 3 talent in this draft. Everyone talks about needing stars to win. Needing talent. Well this seems like potentially the easiest draft to move up in that I've seen. Most of the time it would be cost prohibitive to move up. I'm all for drafting DD or Sabonis at 9, Brown if he drops... But if there is a chance to draft Murray, I'd do It in a heart beat. Because he has talent. The fact he's Canadian and I've seen him play a ton is gravy.

[Barolt]

And again, as I've said several times... if Murray is there at 9, grab him.

But I don't see the value in trading up for him.

[Mindlessness]

I'm not arguing the point, but you're talking about intangibles, not skills. What does he do, skillwise, above average aside from scoring?

He showed fantastic playmaking last year in the Pan Ams. He seems to have very good vision, especially in the Pick and Roll.

[Deino]

I think the concept in Raptors land as good and bad prospects is unfairly based on only defensive capabilities(Casey is mostly responsible for that) as if good offensive players are worthless no matter how good they may be.

[Barolt]

I think the concept in Raptors land as good and bad prospects is unfairly based on only defensive capabilities(Casey is mostly responsible for that) as if good offensive players are worthless no matter how good they may be.

For me the defensive concerns are based on the fact that DeMar isn't a good defender, and anyone we're drafting at 9 needs to play beside him.

You can play one bad defender and maintain decent team defense, you can't do that with two bad defenders on the floor.

[myklk]

Was there another one or were you thinking of this?

Looks a LOT like Pau shooting the ball there.

Poeltl seems to push the ball on his 3 pt attempts - looks like it would be easily blockable

[Deino]

For me the defensive concerns are based on the fact that DeMar isn't a good defender, and anyone we're drafting at 9 needs to play beside him.

You can play one bad defender and maintain decent team defense, you can't do that with two bad defenders on the floor.

But now a days if you suggest any prospect the first thing most talk about is his defense no matter what position he plays 1 to 5 ,it's like we want 5 sets of Biyombo on the floor and god knows where offence will come from,yet again we complain why is Demar taking so many shots !!

[Mindlessness]

For me the defensive concerns are based on the fact that DeMar isn't a good defender, and anyone we're drafting at 9 needs to play beside him.

You can play one bad defender and maintain decent team defense, you can't do that with two bad defenders on the floor.

I don't really see 4 average or better defenders on Cleveland or on the Clippers. They finished 10th and 6th in DRTG this season. One won the championship.

Love, Irving, Blake, and Redick all play heavy minutes for those teams and they get "away" with it. Sure, those guys put in effort, but DeMar puts in effort as well.

I'd bet Murray would be fine and honestly, I think he can be an average or better defender. He's an intelligent player.

[Barolt]

I don't really see 4 average or better defenders on Cleveland or on the Clippers. They finished 10th and 6th in DRTG this season. One won the championship.

Love, Irving, Blake, and Redick all play heavy minutes for those teams and they get "away" with it. Sure, those guys put in effort, but DeMar puts in effort as well.

I'd bet Murray would be fine and honestly, I think he can be an average or better defender. He's an intelligent player.

Redick is a plus defender.

He's so heavily underrated on that end.

[DanH]

Consider the two following players, and how similar/different their numbers are. These are their freshmen seasons in college.

Player 1: 20 PPG, 50% 2PT%, 41% 3PT% (on 7.7 attempts), 4.2 FTA's, 5.2 REB, 2.2 AST, 2.3 TOV

Player 2: 21 PPG, 53% 2PT%, 41% 3PT% (on 8.8 attempts), 4.3 FTA's, 4.6 REB, 2.8 AST, 2.8 TOV

Which player would you deem worth trading up for?

[DanH]

Redick is a plus defender.

He's so heavily underrated on that end.

His -1.6 DRPM (ranked 65th among SG's) would disagree. Now, I don't put everything into RPM, but do you have any evidence that he's a pin underrated defender to counter that?

[Mindlessness]

Redick is a plus defender.

He's so heavily underrated on that end.

He had a -1.59 DRPM and a -2.7 DBPM. He doesn't get steals or rebounds.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

On top of that, he's shorter than Murray in both height and wingspan. So if Redick is "good" on defense, I think Murray will be fine.

[Barolt]

Consider the two following players, and how similar/different their numbers are. These are their freshmen seasons in college.

Player 1: 20 PPG, 50% 2PT%, 41% 3PT% (on 7.7 attempts), 4.2 FTA's, 5.2 REB, 2.2 AST, 2.3 TOV

Player 2: 21 PPG, 53% 2PT%, 41% 3PT% (on 8.8 attempts), 4.3 FTA's, 4.6 REB, 2.8 AST, 2.8 TOV

Which player would you deem worth trading up for?

What's the rest of the draft look like? Heights? Wingspan? Age? Are they defensively quick? There's a lot of other things that matter aside form just stats.

Realistically, I'd consider player B slightly better, I think. Not sure just based on that I'd trade up for either.

[DanH]

Consider the two following players, and how similar/different their numbers are. These are their freshmen seasons in college.

Player 1: 20 PPG, 50% 2PT%, 41% 3PT% (on 7.7 attempts), 4.2 FTA's, 5.2 REB, 2.2 AST, 2.3 TOV

Player 2: 21 PPG, 53% 2PT%, 41% 3PT% (on 8.8 attempts), 4.3 FTA's, 4.6 REB, 2.8 AST, 2.8 TOV

Which player would you deem worth trading up for?

Note: crazy coincidence - the 41% 3PT% listed for each player is actually 40.8% - for both players.

[DanH]

What's the rest of the draft look like? Heights? Wingspan? Age? Are they defensively quick? There's a lot of other things that matter aside form just stats.

Realistically, I'd consider player B slightly better, I think. Not sure just based on that I'd trade up for either.

Player 2 is Steph Curry. Player 1 is Jamal Murray.