Poeltl & Pascal - The 2016 Draft

[JamesNaismith]

Holy bleep! Skal Labissiere putting on a SHOW. #BBN #Kings pic.twitter.com/9yvxmwGBZV

— Scott Charlton (@Scott_Charlton) March 9, 2017

damn wtf

Uugghhh....

Please don't be another "Drummond" situation...

[blackjitsu]

Skal looks like an actual basketball player. Damn.

I'm okay with Poeltl's development. By next season he's likely the backup 5. But, if they can't resign both 2Pat and Serge. That Siakim pick is going to look REALLY bad.

The 905 game highlights:

[Shantz]

Are we really doing this again? Many preemptively lambasted Masai for selecting Delon Wright after a few good games from Bobby Portis.

Just because Skal looks to be developing well right now does now mean it was a mistake to pick Siakam ahead of him. Pascal has already shown some good development and is on path for being a good NBA player. I'll happily take that with the 27th pick.

I wanted Skal on draft night when he dropped, but I'm not willing to anoint him as being a better pick after just 208 career minutes.

[golden]

Are we really doing this again? Many preemptively lambasted Masai for selecting Delon Wright after a few good games from Bobby Portis.

Just because Skal looks to be developing well right now does now mean it was a mistake to pick Siakam ahead of him. Pascal has already shown some good development and is on path for being a good NBA player. I'll happily take that with the 27th pick.

I wanted Skal on draft night when he dropped, but I'm not willing to anoint him as being a better pick after just 208 career minutes.

Sure, you can't say anything about the long term right now. The issue is that everybody agreed that Skal is high-upside, but he was supposed to be years away, like Bruno and the reports around draft time indicated Casey/Masai didn't want any more development projects taking up roster spots. Whereas Siakam looks like he was drafted to be a close to NBA-ready, low-ceiling replacement for Bismack to fit Casey's system.

Too early for sure, but if Raps are going to eschew drafting for upside, in favor of drafting for system need & immediate impact, then Siakam should be contributing now. So the head scratch here is that Siakam doesn't look close to being NBA-ready. In fact, he got worse as the season wore on, to the point of being unplayable. And I was a huge Siakam supporter at the start of the season (... DanH owned me on that one, lol). At this point of the season, it should have been apparent that Siakam is the backup PF going into next year - which gives us some options with Patterson. But really, we don't know for sure if Siakam is an NBA player yet.

At pick #27, with Poeltl already in the bag as the ultra-conservative pick, I saw no reason not to take a swing at Skal or Davis. It's like we're never going to draft a one-and-done guy ever again.

[S.R.]

I think Masai's draft picks have been very balanced overall. He's drafted a range of players and a mix of raw vs ready. His one consistency is hard working character guys with the potential to defend very well. On that front I don't expect many/any Skal or Drummond type picks from Masai.

[golden]

I think Masai's draft picks have been very balanced overall. He's drafted a range of players and a mix of raw vs ready. His one consistency is hard working character guys with the potential to defend very well. On that front I don't expect many/any Skal or Drummond type picks from Masai.

Do we already know that Skal is not a hard working character guy with the potential to defend very well? I thought his potential as a rim-protector was one of the biggest attractions. And from what I recall Skal was a finalist in that last group of workouts right before the draft in Buffalo, along with Siakam, Poeltl & Thon Maker. Some people on this board took that as the sign Masai was going to take Skal at #9, which is why it felt like a no-brainer at 27.

I wouldn't exactly call Masai's picks a mix between raw & ready. Poeltl and Siakam were both 2nd year college guys and accomplished (very high PERs) at the college level. Wright and Powell were 4-year college guys. Sure Yak and Siak have to work on some things, but all college guys have to work on parts of their game (even Ben Simmons is an acknowledge poor shooter). The only truly raw pick is Bruno, IMO. After Bruno, the common theme for our picks are: safe, low-ceiling and NBA-ready.

[lewro]

There's only 3 guys in the DX 1st Rd mock that are 21+ yrs old. Yak was only a sophomore so still kinda young.
I'm justed a little irked by the bwb picks. I thought he could have traded back to get those guys or last yr just keep the pick and buy a 2nd rd like GSW did with McCaw. I think siakam still would have been on the board. I don't think anyone else values bwb as much as masai does. That's a reason I could see him interested in hartenstein.
Anyway, they worked yak out vs Skal. Siakam was in the gym. Maybe skals agent refused to let siakam go one on one? In the end, I think they saw an elite NBA motor translating in siakam and it was unclear if Skal had any translatable skill. It seems obvious that he does now but at the time it was a big question. There were reports that masai talked to Calipari.

[lewro]

Do we already know that Skal is not a hard working character guy with the potential to defend very well? I thought his potential as a rim-protector was one of the biggest attractions. And from what I recall Skal was a finalist in that last group of workouts right before the draft in Buffalo, along with Siakam, Poeltl & Thon Maker. Some people on this board took that as the sign Masai was going to take Skal at #9, which is why it felt like a no-brainer at 27.

I wouldn't exactly call Masai's picks a mix between raw & ready. Poeltl and Siakam were both 2nd year college guys and accomplished (very high PERs) at the college level. Wright and Powell were 4-year college guys. Sure Yak and Siak have to work on some things, but all college guys have to work on parts of their game (even Ben Simmons is an acknowledge poor shooter). The only truly raw pick is Bruno, IMO. After Bruno, the common theme for our picks are: safe, low-ceiling and NBA-ready.

Siakam redshirted his freshman yr so he was a 3 yr sophomore.
Are you sure maker was in Buffalo? IIRC, they wanted to see Skal vs yak and siakam worked out on another hoop and was disappointed that he didn't get to compete.

[lewro]

Does anyone listen to ode to Oden?

[mjt20mik]

Sure, you can't say anything about the long term right now. The issue is that everybody agreed that Skal is high-upside, but he was supposed to be years away, like Bruno and the reports around draft time indicated Casey/Masai didn't want any more development projects taking up roster spots. Whereas Siakam looks like he was drafted to be a close to NBA-ready, low-ceiling replacement for Bismack to fit Casey's system.

Too early for sure, but if Raps are going to eschew drafting for upside, in favor of drafting for system need & immediate impact, then Siakam should be contributing now. So the head scratch here is that Siakam doesn't look close to being NBA-ready. In fact, he got worse as the season wore on, to the point of being unplayable. And I was a huge Siakam supporter at the start of the season (... DanH owned me on that one, lol). At this point of the season, it should have been apparent that Siakam is the backup PF going into next year - which gives us some options with Patterson. But really, we don't know for sure if Siakam is an NBA player yet.

At pick #27, with Poeltl already in the bag as the ultra-conservative pick, I saw no reason not to take a swing at Skal or Davis. It's like we're never going to draft a one-and-done guy ever again.

The fact that he was a projected lottery pick and went late first shows you that the execs knew something we didn't. He had one good game and I'm happy for the kid, but I have no issues with Siakam now.

[lewro]

The fact that he was a projected lottery pick and went late first shows you that the execs knew something we didn't. He had one good game and I'm happy for the kid, but I have no issues with Siakam now.

He's had more than one good game but as shantz pointed out, it's still very early.
Also, he was projected as the #1 pick out of HS - hello Harry Giles!

[Bendit]

There's only 3 guys in the DX 1st Rd mock that are 21+ yrs old. Yak was only a sophomore so still kinda young.
I'm justed a little irked by the bwb picks. I thought he could have traded back to get those guys or last yr just keep the pick and buy a 2nd rd like GSW did with McCaw. I think siakam still would have been on the board. I don't think anyone else values bwb as much as masai does. That's a reason I could see him interested in hartenstein.
Anyway, they worked yak out vs Skal. Siakam was in the gym. Maybe skals agent refused to let siakam go one on one? In the end, I think they saw an elite NBA motor translating in siakam and it was unclear if Skal had any translatable skill. It seems obvious that he does now but at the time it was a big question. There were reports that masai talked to Calipari.

the bold represents a pretty dicey way to go about the draft...especially with the positioning of a team like the Raptors and that they blew their load with the chancy Bruno recently. The rule of thumb (unless you are absolutely sure that your target will be available later and you are a top tier team able to miss out) is to make the choice you are in love with when he is available. Do not get greedy. I assume MU really liked who he chose...there is time.

No guarantee that a McCaw would have been available where he went. There are plenty of such picks thru the years in the bin. PJ Tucker is an example who is unique that after getting dropped came back only because of his personality of persistence. The draft is a crap shoot for the majority.

[JamesNaismith]

He's had more than one good game but as shantz pointed out, it's still very early.
Also, he was projected as the #1 pick out of HS - hello Harry Giles!

I like Giles potential a lot more than Skal's because he was actually a dominant player in HS. Scouts fell in love with Skal's combination of shooting touch and decent athleticism. Giles actually played a lot like a SF (minus the consistent outside jumper)....previous to his college career he was actually very quick for PF and possessed pretty good handles for a player his size....

That's the scary thing....we've seen NONE of that in college and the question is it because of his MAJOR red flag(s), that he's had TWO major surgeries and isn't even 19 years old yet and/or has his style of play not been worked into the offence?!

I think it's both but more so the first versus the latter.

I mean he's young and players don't usually come back from injuries and jump right back into looking like their old selves. It's going to take time but the problem is that teams don't know what "100%" Giles looks like. His new "100%" could be more like 80% of what he once was ala Paul George, which could still be great but never back to that true elite level, not to mention if he gets another injury (which seems very likely) he may just be another tragic "Oden" like story. The issue with Skal wasn't really injury, it was development...all Skal showed was a right hook shot, a jumper from the FT line and the occasional help side block. Other than that he is raw and needs time to be developed (ala DeRozan not Bruno) which brings me to the next post...

Too early for sure, but if Raps are going to eschew drafting for upside, in favor of drafting for system need & immediate impact, then Siakam should be contributing now. So the head scratch here is that Siakam doesn't look close to being NBA-ready. In fact, he got worse as the season wore on, to the point of being unplayable.

At pick #27, with Poeltl already in the bag as the ultra-conservative pick, I saw no reason not to take a swing at Skal or Davis. It's like we're never going to draft a one-and-done guy ever again.

I get the same feeling and we could be wrong but it appears to be that way which would be a TERRIBLE way to draft based on using possibly the most raw player of all time as your team's barometer to draft potential vs supposed "NBA ready"...

I mean Bruno really and truly is the most raw 1st rd pick I've EVER seen!

Our management seems either gun shy or so focused on winning now that they either fear a project busting or don't have the patience. Either way....BAD idea! Our best or second best, depending on who you ask was once a very raw player (DeMar DeRozan). I'm not sure if people remember just how unpolished and unrefined DD's game was, he wasn't much more than a dunker that could hit the occasional mid-range jumper and look at all the tools he's added to his game since then. I know it's hard to tell who's "Weems" vs who's "DeRozan" (or Giannis vs Bruno) but occasionally you have to take a chance especially as a team near the top of your conference. Being able to add talent becomes more and more challenging and usually when someone says "NBA ready" what they mean is ready to fulfill a particular role/be a role player.....majority of the league is role players.

That's why I don't agree with the desire to draft that way. There is a plethora of role players that can give you what a 1st or 2nd year player can for a year or two. But it's incredibly difficult to add a stud to your roster, the draft gives a team a free swing at it. If players like Anunoby, Hartenstein or Bridges are on the board we better damn well not be overly cautious and elect go the "Blossomgames, Harts" etc of the draft just because they are "older" rookies that we assume can contribute sooner. This draft in particular is just overflowing with potential that I'm 100% certain there will be a player in our range that will be a borderline all-star or better, it will just be a matter of taking a chance and hoping we made the right choice.

[lewro]

the bold represents a pretty dicey way to go about the draft...especially with the positioning of a team like the Raptors and that they blew their load with the chancy Bruno recently. The rule of thumb (unless you are absolutely sure that your target will be available later and you are a top tier team able to miss out) is to make the choice you are in love with when he is available. Do not get greedy. I assume MU really liked who he chose...there is time.

No guarantee that a McCaw would have been available where he went. There are plenty of such picks thru the years in the bin. PJ Tucker is an example who is unique that after getting dropped came back only because of his personality of persistence. The draft is a crap shoot for the majority.

I'd say based on rumour this may have been true in the case of Bruno but less so in the case of siakam. The bucks had two picks in the 30s and it was known that they wanted to deal (which they did). Celts, rockets and jazz all had multiple 2nd rounders.
I can understand targeting a player and sticking to your board; I just find it hard to believe that we gave some consideration to Davis and Skal at 9 but none at 27. Given our hole at pf and that the draft is a crap shoot (as you said), I could justify adapting to the unexpected fall of Davis and skal at 27 and picking up a 2nd to get siakam. It's a risk but one worth taking imo. Siakam was projected around 45 and I've never heard any rumoured interest from another team. Hypothetically, if we got siakam and Skal then they battle for a job and the loser goes to 905 (which was the projection and need for siakam in the first place). Fall back option, we take uthoff undrafted or another name still on the board like layman. I like siakam but I don't think as much as masai does. I blindly attribute that in part to bwb. If he takes another bwb guy then I will feel more confident in that statement.

[lewro]

James, Skal was dominate in HS and in international play and he also missed his senior year do to injury. He played AAU that yr and was dominant. He was projected #1 based on HS, AAU and international play.

I think Giles is coasting to get into the league first and then go from there. If he busts his ass now and gets injured then he's done and doesn't even get the guaranteed rookie contract in the $5m range. I think we will see the real Giles once he gets into the L.