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  • DanH wrote: View Post
    OK, hold up, folks. Carroll has definitely been struggling to find his groove. Playing more than half his minutes with the broken starting lineup beside Siakam isn't helping any, but regardless he is struggling.

    But.

    He's shooting 33% from three on 4 attempts a game. He's a little cool but he'll be fine - he's been a roughly 40% shooter from distance for three straight years. The issue is he's being fed midrange opportunities, including some off the dribble for some reason. Not his game, never will be. Defensively he'll find his footing.

    The entire team could do with simplifying their game like DeMar has. DeMar has been doing a great job of coming off screens and finding space to elevate with a nice balanced jumper. And when teams finally panic and start sending multiple guys his way late in games he's been finding the open man. Simple. Lowry needs to settle down and run some pick plays as well. Carroll needs to settle into his groove of 3 and D role player, and wait for opportunities to cut or crash the boards. JV needs to set picks, roll or pop to the free throw line, and take his time in the post and use his go to moves more (can't recall the last time he used his running hook shot in the lane). Everyone just needs to calm down. DeRozan's calming effect has carried us through thus far, but he'll cool down at some point and others will need to be reliable - and they will be if they just calm down and play to their strengths.
    With Carroll I'm just worried because I don't know if it's the injury that's causing his problems or him still trying to find himself in this system. Also Pascal is going to be starting for a while so he's going to have to figure out how to play well with Pascal in the lineup. I will give Carroll until mid season to get his shit together before I completely write him off. And I agree. Everyone needs to settle down. The only person who has settled down is Ross other than Demar. Everyone else is trying to do too much or not playing their game. Ross does too much at times too but he is MUCH better than he was previous seasons.
    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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    • One thing I worry about with Carroll is if he's a rhythm shooter who needs a more structured Spurs/Hawks type of ball movement system where it's more predictable when and where his shots are coming from. He has shown little to no ability to create or shoot off the dribble, which happens frequently in the Raps system where the only thing predictable is that Lowry or DD will try to create offense. But for the other players it's somewhat unpredictable where/when/how they will be getting their open looks and they have to become experts at reading & reacting off Lowry and DD. That unpredictability is one of the strengths of the Raps system, but reacting to that might not be Carroll's strength. The guy bounced around quite a bit before finding success in Altanta - maybe there's a reason for that.

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      • His defense has looked fine. Even though his 3-point shooting should be better a few ticks (he's not a lights-out shooter, so I'd be happy with 36%), his D has to be his calling card to earn his role on this team.

        We've been winning, so I don't see a huge amount to complain about even with Carroll. He needs to be our Bruce Bowen, and he still projects pretty well to be that.

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        • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
          His defense has looked fine. Even though his 3-point shooting should be better a few ticks (he's not a lights-out shooter, so I'd be happy with 36%), his D has to be his calling card to earn his role on this team.

          We've been winning, so I don't see a huge amount to complain about even with Carroll. He needs to be our Bruce Bowen, and he still projects pretty well to be that.
          Could be selective memory on my part, but I see a lot of perimeter blow-bys. He's having trouble staying in front of his man. It looks like his lateral mobility is still compromised by his knee issues.

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          • Carroll is sort of like Amir Johnson, a hustle player who had a habit of playing through injuries. Eventually, at about 10 years playing that way it will catch up to you. Now, there shouldn't be much excuse for him to be missing so many open 3's, but he can't do the little things like he used to.

            Lowry and maybe JV in the future might be the same way. Lowry doesn't take charges or go for offensive rebounds like he used to, but still manages to adjust his game as he gets older. JV I think tries to play through injuries way too much.
            -"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
            -"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”

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            • I do think this one may end up a dark spot on Masai's resume when it's all said and done. That was a unique offseason, even the passive fan was unsatisfied after the sweep and MLSE needed to keep the we the north momentum. We weren't out bidding bostom for amir and clearly Lou will needed to go, so there was definitely pressure to make a splash with that cap space on a small forward. He's starting to look more like Landry fields than "the lebron stopper" but hey I could still be wrong, and I like most others around here supported the signing at the time so hindsight is 20/20
              9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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              • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                I do think this one may end up a dark spot on Masai's resume when it's all said and done. That was a unique offseason, even the passive fan was unsatisfied after the sweep and MLSE needed to keep the we the north momentum. We weren't out bidding bostom for amir and clearly Lou will needed to go, so there was definitely pressure to make a splash with that cap space on a small forward. He's starting to look more like Landry fields than "the lebron stopper" but hey I could still be wrong, and I like most others around here supported the signing at the time so hindsight is 20/20
                Fields had horrendous luck with that scary nerve issue. Though that move smacked of Colangelo's patented "Well, we have to pay someone" logic that we grew to loathe. I wasn't a huge fan of the Carroll signing at the time, but I saw the logic behind it. Hindsight indeed is 20/20, though Masai should have considered how Atlanta's ball-movement heavy offense was more conducive to Carroll maximizing his skillset than Raptors system is. But so much was being made of the Raptors not having a legitimate SF after the Wizards series that I suppose he thought he had no choice but to throw money at someone. The knee thing is troublesome too. Nobody is going to "stop" LeBron by themselves, but Carroll has been a pylon on defense this year. I'm not sure if the Raptors would consider shutting him down for an extended period, or sitting him on the second nights of B2B's, but its something to watch.

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                • It's not even the shots tho, Carroll needs to be playing well above average defence. Knocking down threes to chip in a few points and keep the D honest is almost gravy.

                  I wonder how much Carroll's JYD/Cuck Hustle impact had a lot more to do with Atlanta's finesse roster. He doesn't stand out in that regard at all on this Raptors team.
                  "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                  • S.R. wrote: View Post
                    It's not even the shots tho, Carroll needs to be playing well above average defence. Knocking down threes to chip in a few points and keep the D honest is almost gravy.

                    I wonder how much Carroll's JYD/Cuck Hustle impact had a lot more to do with Atlanta's finesse roster. He doesn't stand out in that regard at all on this Raptors team.
                    Yeah, I knew he wouldnt shoot 40% from deep here, just not the same looks. And I admit I didn't watch a lot of hawks basketball in 2014 15, what the hell is this junkyard dog shit we were sold? He barely steals the ball, barely goes for loose balls and if he does he doesn't come up wit it, I don't recall many blocks, big boards or mucking it up inside or getting angry..He's usually just kind of..around...not to mention one of the worst finishers for a starting wing I ever recall within 2 ft of the basket.

                    I gave him a pass last year obvs it was tough to find his footing. But so far this year he looks a lot worse, and the fanbase doesn't want to hear matt and Leo make excuses about health all broadcast. 60 million reasons why patience wears thin awfully quick.
                    9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                    • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                      Yeah, I knew he wouldnt shoot 40% from deep here, just not the same looks. And I admit I didn't watch a lot of hawks basketball in 2014 15, what the hell is this junkyard dog shit we were sold? He barely steals the ball, barely goes for loose balls and if he does he doesn't come up wit it, I don't recall many blocks, big boards or mucking it up inside or getting angry..He's usually just kind of..around...not to mention one of the worst finishers for a starting wing I ever recall within 2 ft of the basket.

                      I gave him a pass last year obvs it was tough to find his footing. But so far this year he looks a lot worse, and the fanbase doesn't want to hear matt and Leo make excuses about health all broadcast. 60 million reasons why patience wears thin awfully quick.
                      He shot 39% from three last season. Him shooting 40% here is not a reach at all.

                      Agreed he can't finish inside, though to be fair, if he's trying to finish in there often he's not playing his role. Shoot, defend, rebound. That's it. The defence is coming along - he's had a couple rough games, but also a couple good ones. But bad defence is more memorable than solid defence so... And he's rebounding just fine. Play him next to Patterson more (an experienced PF you can trust to rotate correctly) and he'd look much better. Everybody's trying to do too much and failing at simple stuff like boxing out and getting beat back door because they are trying to make up for a rookie (or two) in the starting lineup. Carroll is certainly not blameless, but he's still working back into shape and he should be fine in time.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • What a BAD signing ...

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post
                          He shot 39% from three last season. Him shooting 40% here is not a reach at all.

                          Agreed he can't finish inside, though to be fair, if he's trying to finish in there often he's not playing his role. Shoot, defend, rebound. That's it. The defence is coming along - he's had a couple rough games, but also a couple good ones. But bad defence is more memorable than solid defence so... And he's rebounding just fine. Play him next to Patterson more (an experienced PF you can trust to rotate correctly) and he'd look much better. Everybody's trying to do too much and failing at simple stuff like boxing out and getting beat back door because they are trying to make up for a rookie (or two) in the starting lineup. Carroll is certainly not blameless, but he's still working back into shape and he should be fine in time.
                          Tell that to Casey. He's got him and Patterson trying to "expand their game" when really all anybody needs from them is to hit shots. If they hit shots, they don't need to even touch the paint unless on defense or a fastbreak.

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                          • tDotted wrote: View Post
                            Tell that to Casey. He's got him and Patterson trying to "expand their game" when really all anybody needs from them is to hit shots. If they hit shots, they don't need to even touch the paint unless on defense or a fastbreak.
                            Tell me about it. For a guy who sets his role cards in stone, those roles seem broader than they should be. Shoot whenever remotely open. Simple.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • Yes, it's Casey's fault our fowards can't make open shots.

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                              @Chr1st1anL

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                              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                                Yes, it's Casey's fault our fowards can't make open shots.

                                Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                                I wouldn't blame Casey either, but Patterson and Carroll shouldn't be driving the ball as much as they are. Nice that they can do it, but they're using it as an option when they lose confidence in their shot and neither option is working. Defences are now sagging off them onto our ball handlers, so they lose their effectiveness as floor spacers in addition to clogging up the paint themselves.

                                Pat and Carroll need to shoot their way out of these slumps, instead of driving to the mid-range and trying to shoot floaters off the dribble - not their games at all.
                                Last edited by golden; Tue Nov 8, 2016, 10:39 PM.

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