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  • golden wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't blame Casey either, but Patterson and Carroll shouldn't be driving the ball as much as they are. Nice that they can do it, but they're using it as an option when they lose confidence in their shot and neither option is working. Defences are now sagging off them onto our ball handlers, so they lose their effectiveness as floor spacers in addition to clogging up the paint themselves.

    Pat and Carroll need to shoot their way out of these slumps, instead of driving to the mid-range and trying to shoot floaters off the dribble - not their games at all.
    I don't mind Patterson driving a little and popping a mid range or posting up. Carroll however, should not be driving into the paint.

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    • A.I wrote: View Post
      I don't mind Patterson driving a little and popping a mid range or posting up. Carroll however, should not be driving into the paint.
      A little bit of driving, mid-range, post-up - absolutely. Passing up open 3's in favor of driving into the paint from the perimeter - not so much. Keep taking the open 3, Pat, and miss till you make.

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      • golden wrote: View Post
        One thing I worry about with Carroll is if he's a rhythm shooter who needs a more structured Spurs/Hawks type of ball movement system where it's more predictable when and where his shots are coming from. He has shown little to no ability to create or shoot off the dribble, which happens frequently in the Raps system where the only thing predictable is that Lowry or DD will try to create offense. But for the other players it's somewhat unpredictable where/when/how they will be getting their open looks and they have to become experts at reading & reacting off Lowry and DD. That unpredictability is one of the strengths of the Raps system, but reacting to that might not be Carroll's strength. The guy bounced around quite a bit before finding success in Altanta - maybe there's a reason for that.
        This was my concern too, but he did hit 39% from 3 for 26 games last year, so I think we can make it work.

        DanH wrote: View Post
        He's shooting 33% from three on 4 attempts a game. He's a little cool but he'll be fine - he's been a roughly 40% shooter from distance for three straight years.
        Sort of.... he had one season of 70 games at 39.5%. 26 games last year at 39%. And now he's at 26.9% through six games. So 102 games at 38.6%. Which is still a good solid sample size.

        Question is, how is his health and mobility going to play into his overall game. Dude is shooting 25% within 10 ft of the rim, good for 353 out of 373 players. Small sample size, but might support the eye test.

        Hopefully he's just shaking off the rust. At 100% he'd be a very useful piece for us. Even at 80-90%. But I don't know where he legitimately is right now. If this persists through another month I'd be worried.

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        • Scraptor wrote: View Post
          This was my concern too, but he did hit 39% from 3 for 26 games last year, so I think we can make it work.



          Sort of.... he had one season of 70 games at 39.5%. 26 games last year at 39%. And now he's at 26.9% through six games. So 102 games at 38.6%. Which is still a good solid sample size.

          Question is, how is his health and mobility going to play into his overall game. Dude is shooting 25% within 10 ft of the rim, good for 353 out of 373 players. Small sample size, but might support the eye test.

          Hopefully he's just shaking off the rust. At 100% he'd be a very useful piece for us. Even at 80-90%. But I don't know where he legitimately is right now. If this persists through another month I'd be worried.
          Yeah, but he shot 36% over a full season the year prior to the one you are quoting. That's three seasons that combined he shot close to 40% (with one of those three shortened, so about 170 games in total).
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • Scraptor wrote: View Post
            This was my concern too, but he did hit 39% from 3 for 26 games last year, so I think we can make it work.



            Sort of.... he had one season of 70 games at 39.5%. 26 games last year at 39%. And now he's at 26.9% through six games. So 102 games at 38.6%. Which is still a good solid sample size.

            Question is, how is his health and mobility going to play into his overall game. Dude is shooting 25% within 10 ft of the rim, good for 353 out of 373 players. Small sample size, but might support the eye test.

            Hopefully he's just shaking off the rust. At 100% he'd be a very useful piece for us. Even at 80-90%. But I don't know where he legitimately is right now. If this persists through another month I'd be worried.
            Think he said he's at 80-90?

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            • S.R. wrote: View Post
              It's not even the shots tho, Carroll needs to be playing well above average defence. Knocking down threes to chip in a few points and keep the D honest is almost gravy.

              I wonder how much Carroll's JYD/Cuck Hustle impact had a lot more to do with Atlanta's finesse roster. He doesn't stand out in that regard at all on this Raptors team.
              When I say hustle player, I am mostly referring to his pre-Atlanta days where he wasn't really considered a part of any offense really. He started to show flashes of being more than just a role player in Utah, and his offensive game bloomed in Atlanta. Strong 3-D wing players, aren't all that common in the NBA, so he isn't easily replaced. However, I was expecting him to be a step above PP at the very least.
              -"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
              -"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”

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              • Raptorsss wrote: View Post
                When I say hustle player, I am mostly referring to his pre-Atlanta days where he wasn't really considered a part of any offense really. He started to show flashes of being more than just a role player in Utah, and his offensive game bloomed in Atlanta. Strong 3-D wing players, aren't all that common in the NBA, so he isn't easily replaced. However, I was expecting him to be a step above PP at the very least.
                He's not bad at 3s, his D has been suspect as fuck. Every time he's replaced by Ross or Powell we go on a run..
                9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                  He's not bad at 3s, his D has been suspect as fuck. Every time he's replaced by Ross or Powell we go on a run..
                  To be fair, though, most often when he's replaced by Ross or Powell, Siakam is replaced by Patterson. And THAT's the real difference.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • DanH wrote: View Post
                    To be fair, though, most often when he's replaced by Ross or Powell, Siakam is replaced by Patterson. And THAT's the real difference.
                    Patterson is much better than Siakam yes, but I also believe Powell is much better than Carroll. Bebe is also better than Poeltl, it was comical yesterday that our bench with either DD or KL was easily better AND more talented than our starters.
                    9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                    • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                      He's not bad at 3s, his D has been suspect as fuck. Every time he's replaced by Ross or Powell we go on a run..
                      DanH wrote: View Post
                      To be fair, though, most often when he's replaced by Ross or Powell, Siakam is replaced by Patterson. And THAT's the real difference.
                      Second, that it's better to think of Carroll as a 4 on defense like Patterson and not a 3.
                      -"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
                      -"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”

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                      • Raptorsss wrote: View Post
                        Second, that it's better to think of Carroll as a 4 on defense like Patterson and not a 3.
                        I haven't seen much evidence he's a 4-stopper either, hell he weighs 10 lbs less than demar. If he didn't hit 3s he'd be dead weight. But he can so he should be our wing off the bench
                        9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                        • Carroll beside Siakam: -2.3 on-court net RTG
                          Carroll not beside Siakam: +16.8 on-court net RTG

                          Roughly 60% of his minutes spent beside Siakam. Roughly 40% not.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • DanH wrote: View Post
                            Carroll beside Siakam: -2.3 on-court net RTG
                            Carroll not beside Siakam: +16.8 on-court net RTG

                            Roughly 60% of his minutes spent beside Siakam. Roughly 40% not.
                            What's that? Patterson should start? Yes, yes he should.

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                            • He's looking like a player who got paid and now is in coasting mode.

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                              • Apollo wrote: View Post
                                He's looking like a player whole got paid and now is in coasting mode.
                                I wouldn't go as far as to say it's money related but he definitely looks like a guy who knows that the regular season games are just warmup for the playoffs.

                                He doesn't play these games with the same intensity as Powell right now. Powell's defence on Batum was better than anything I've seen from Carroll this season.
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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