Are we treadmilling?

[MixxAOR]

We have Top 10 pick and young talent. So no we're not treadmilling. Derozan and Lowry core might've reached their ceiling. But we'll have to see where young guys take us.

[Nilanka]

well, he has said multiple times the goal is championships. consistently getting exposed in the playoffs at round 1, 2, or even 3, is still treadmilling at that point.

I really hope he sees it this way too.

We have to know he'll be praising our efforts in the end-of-season presser, even if we get blown out 4 straight games. Gonna have to see through his remarks somehow.

[Axel]

The concern for us is that Masai's never actually defined what he believes a treadmill to be.

For all we know, winning 50+ games with a ECF berth could exceed his definition of a treadmill team (under normal circumstances, he'd be right).

And if he does view this roster that way, then would he be motivated to remove a core piece like DeRozan or Casey?

No but then he isn't who we believe he is. It's pretty clear around the league that we've played some of the worst basketball in the playoffs and there are fundamental reasons for it. If he sees the talent and the system and says 'no problems here' then I question his judgment.

But all his "work in progress" comments make me believe that he sees a lot of the same issues we do and realizes the limited opportunities to make it better. So yes, we've improved so far but it's pretty clear that this group isn't going to beat the Cavs, so we've reached the end of this road. Choice is to ride it out for a few years and say "hey, we tried" or make a big change. Riding it out likely means he is fired in a few years as the team is obviously stagnant.

[Bendit]

I have a hard time arguing that we are treadmilling in the year that we set franchise records for both wins and playoff progression. But you could certainly argue that where we go from here could put us on a treadmill. The biggest decisions are obviously what we do with Kyle and DeMar.

My post intention was to look forward and avoid falling into the category by being status quo. Even consistent 50+ win teams can be considered "treadmill"....more so in the East.

[rocwell]

We have Top 10 pick and young talent. So no we're not treadmilling. Derozan and Lowry core might've reached their ceiling. But we'll have to see where young guys take us.

I think we are still on the treadmill, but we are moving forward. It's a good sign, obviously better than from few years ago:

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I don't think the Raptors are a treadmill team yet, given all the assets and flexibility that MU has to work with, including several prospects and 4 1st round picks over the next two drafts.

Having said that, as has been argued all season, it looks like the ceiling for this core (Casey, DeRozan and Lowry) is the 2nd round (or ECF fodder). I will give this team credit, for setting the franchise's regular season win total record and for reaching the ECF, but I don't think any of that changes the evaluation of this core's short-term (1-3 years) ceiling.

With All 3 components of the core up for re-signing over the next few offseasons, with huge salary increases required to keep DeRozan and Lowry, there are clearly fewer avenues for improvement. The team will need to rely on organic growth (how much more can JV or others be expected to do in this core's guard-centric hero-ball system?) and draft picks to reach the next level, which I don't think will be able to get them over the hump.

Personally, I think if MU decides to re-up all three members of the core, then the dreaded "treadmill team" or "no man's land" discussion could begin to creep in.

I'm also in the camp that believes the team could move on from this core, without taking a significant step back (ie: replace DeRozan with Ross/Powell + healthy Carroll + more heavily utilized JV + upgraded starting PF + less reliance on Lowry + new offensive system). Only time will tell, of course.

[slaw]

Is this for real? The Lebrons are on track to make 6 straight Finals. Why? Cause Lebron. That's the way the NBA works. That's the way the NBA has worked for 60-70 years. If you consider "competing" getting past Lebron then, I'm sorry, you are shit out of luck - Toronto isn't a competitive team I guess. And, given that there are only 3 teams in the NBA that have a chance to beat the Lebrons, I guess there are only 4 competitive teams in the NBA. Everyone else should just pack it in and tank until Lebron, Durant, Westbrook and Curry are all retired.

Neither were Payton's Sonics, Barkley's Suns, Drexler's Blazers, Nash's Suns, Malone/Stockton Jazz, Ewing's Knicks: not a single one of those teams was competitive. All treadmill teams cause they had no chance against the GOATS of the day.

Improving your win total for 4-5 straight years, winning 56 games and making a conference finals while having 4 first round picks the next two years, a roster of guys in its prime or not there yet, along with a bunch of prospects is not a treadmill team by any stretch of the definition. If they were to go the ECF the next two years and lose to the Lebrons all three times it still isn't a treadmill team: it's a good team that couldn't get by the GOAT of its generation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that in the context of NBA history.

[iblastoff]

we've barely even been to the playoffs enough times to be considered treadmilling.

obviously these conference finals games are looking terrible. but still gotta remember that we match up TERRIBLY with the cavs, especially when carroll can't slow lebron down for whatever reason. playing too close/not sagging whatever. its clearly not working.

JV is out. and we have a HUGE hole as biyombo is being stretched out too far from the rim, having to cover TWO pf/centers who can shoot from 3.

on top of players who are struggling for no real particular reason (cory joseph and lowry being the main culprits, which is terrible considering they're supposed to be the floor generals), we all know this raptors team as a whole can play a lot better.

the raptors have gone further than the clippers ever have in the playoffs. so thats something!

[Barolt]

Here's the thing: Yes, Cleveland is amazing. Yes, we're in the ECF.

Guess what: We're playing .500 ball in the playoffs. By the end of this series, we'll be under .500 having played a bad Indiana team and a crippled Miami team.

[JimiCliff]

Man oh man, I do not look forward to the number of times 'we made the ECF' will be used as if it's proof of something. Indiana and Miami were fielding rosters more comparable to d-league teams than GSW/SAS/CLE/OKC - and we barely beat either of them.

[slaw]

Man oh man, I do not look forward to the number of times 'we made the ECF' will be used as if it's proof of something. Indiana and Miami were fielding rosters more comparable to d-league teams than GSW/SAS/CLE/OKC - and we barely beat either of them.

#fakeconferencefinals. #fakeplayoffwins.

Didn't take long for this to start. Corpse isn't even cold.

[S.R.]

I hate how quickly the "okay let's tank" conversation comes up.

[Axel]

#fakeconferencefinals. #fakeplayoffwins.

Didn't take long for this to start. Corpse isn't even cold.

Not what he said.

Do you think this team's core is at its ceiling?

[Nilanka]

Is this for real? The Lebrons are on track to make 6 straight Finals. Why? Cause Lebron. That's the way the NBA works. That's the way the NBA has worked for 60-70 years. If you consider "competing" getting past Lebron then, I'm sorry, you are shit out of luck - Toronto isn't a competitive team I guess. And, given that there are only 3 teams in the NBA that have a chance to beat the Lebrons, I guess there are only 4 competitive teams in the NBA. Everyone else should just pack it in and tank until Lebron, Durant, Westbrook and Curry are all retired.

Neither were Payton's Sonics, Barkley's Suns, Drexler's Blazers, Nash's Suns, Malone/Stockton Jazz, Ewing's Knicks: not a single one of those teams was competitive. All treadmill teams cause they had no chance against the GOATS of the day.

Improving your win total for 4-5 straight years, winning 56 games and making a conference finals while having 4 first round picks the next two years, a roster of guys in its prime or not there yet, along with a bunch of prospects is not a treadmill team by any stretch of the definition. If they were to go the ECF the next two years and lose to the Lebrons all three times it still isn't a treadmill team: it's a good team that couldn't get by the GOAT of its generation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that in the context of NBA history.

We gotta acknowledge the difference between "losing to LeBron" and "getting destroyed by LeBron".

It's hard to draw many parallels between the 2015-16 Raptors and the 1997-98 Jazz.

[Barolt]

I hate how quickly the "okay let's tank" conversation comes up.

For me it's not "okay let's tank", it's "okay let's retool around JV". Big difference.

We don't have to tank. The young assets to build around are right there on our roster. We just need to give them the minutes and usage to grow.