Everything Bismack Biyombo

[slaw]

Dallas and Carlisle make the most sense to be aggressive and sign Biyombo. Cuban would glad open up the check book to $20 if he felt it would help the team and Biyombo would definitely help them in the short term. Long term, Dallas needs a star to replace Dirk and if they miss out in free agency again, you have to wonder if they will keep going hard after short term solutions or actually try to rebuild. Don't see them doing that until Dirk retires though. Biyombo would help cover a lot of Dirks short comings on D.

I believe Cuban has said in the past that as long as Dirk wants to play and can play that he will commit to trying to put a winner on the floor, so Dallas would make sense. Portland would be another team that makes sense cause they don't really need scoring but could use defense/rebounding/athleticism up front. Milwaukee might be another team with a lot of mouths to feed offensively that could be interested in BB.

I think he'll have options.

[S.R.]

I think we already overpaid Carroll let's not do it again with Biz.

I think Carroll will be a lot better next year. He missed so much time this year, tried to play with injuries, and is still out of sync/off his game. He's a better player than this. Healthy and integrated, he'll be a positive next season.

I do think his "JYD" mentality was overrated on a finesse Atlanta team. His effort doesn't stand out nearly as much sharing the floor with Lowry and Biz.

[Billy103]

I think Carroll will be a lot better next year. He missed so much time this year, tried to play with injuries, and is still out of sync/off his game. He's a better player than this. Healthy and integrated, he'll be a positive next season.

I do think his "JYD" mentality was overrated on a finesse Atlanta team. His effort doesn't stand out nearly as much sharing the floor with Lowry and Biz.

Very true I was just looking at his highlights against the cav's last year and he looks way different. I hope we get the carroll we signed up for and not turn into Landry fields 2.0

[golden]

I think Carroll will be a lot better next year. He missed so much time this year, tried to play with injuries, and is still out of sync/off his game. He's a better player than this. Healthy and integrated, he'll be a positive next season.

I do think his "JYD" mentality was overrated on a finesse Atlanta team. His effort doesn't stand out nearly as much sharing the floor with Lowry and Biz.

I'm not really optimistic that Carroll will ever truly fit in with Lowry and Derozan and the Raps offense as currently constructed. I feel like Carroll's not that great at improvising and reading and reacting off Lowry/DD drives as the bailout man, despite being wide open.

IMO, he seems better in an offense like the Spurs/Hawks where shooters more frequently know in advance where & when plays are being run for them. The early motion and misdirection is actually 'setting up the open shot' as opposed to the Raps where the goal is to create seams for Lowry/DD to attack the basket on drives or get fouled, with the open shot being the 3rd option as a bailout. Also, he's absolutely terrible finishing on drives, which is a mandatory skill for wings & guards in the Raps offense.

Remember, Carroll was a fringe NBA player until he found the perfect system/role fit with the Hawks. You hear that a lot with NBA players these days talking about opportunity and fit being a really important thing for their careers.

[Gambino]

Batum would fit much better with demar and kyle than carroll since he can do some stuff off the dribble. If he's interested in coming here i think Charlotte might actually take Carroll back in a sign and trade. He'd cost like 5-10m more per year but probably play a lot better.

[Billy103]

Batum would fit much better with demar and kyle than carroll since he can do some stuff off the dribble. If he's interested in coming here i think Charlotte might actually take Carroll back in a sign and trade. He'd cost like 5-10m more per year but probably play a lot better.

Why would charlotte want DC?

[Gambino]

Why would charlotte want DC?

Well if they lost Batum that would leave them with a pretty big hole on the wings, and MJ hasn't shown any propensity for or desire to rebuild.

[LJ2]

Maybe this is a better question for the JV thread, but does anyone have access to Kyle and DeMar's playoff numbers during the games JV has played, as well as the ones which JV has not played? Seems like they have struggled with JV and have played better in games when he was out.

I bring this up in the Biyombo thread because if the Raptors are committed to the Lowry/DeRozan combo going forward, then maybe they do need to commit to Biyombo as well whom seems to mesh well with their game.

[S.R.]

I'm not really optimistic that Carroll will ever truly fit in with Lowry and Derozan and the Raps offense as currently constructed. I feel like Carroll's not that great at improvising and reading and reacting off Lowry/DD drives as the bailout man, despite being wide open.

IMO, he seems better in an offense like the Spurs/Hawks where shooters more frequently know in advance where & when plays are being run for them. The early motion and misdirection is actually 'setting up the open shot' as opposed to the Raps where the goal is to create seams for Lowry/DD to attack the basket on drives or get fouled, with the open shot being the 3rd option as a bailout. Also, he's absolutely terrible finishing on drives, which is a mandatory skill for wings & guards in the Raps offense.

Remember, Carroll was a fringe NBA player until he found the perfect system/role fit with the Hawks. You hear that a lot with NBA players these days talking about opportunity and fit being a really important thing for their careers.

The idea that the system is hard for Toronto's role playing shooters gets floated around here, do we have any evidence for it at all? Isn't it mostly the eye-test judgment that this offence can look damn ugly at times? Because in terms of efficiency and shooting numbers I don't really see a problem.

Carroll's 3-pt attempts and percentage were virtually identical this last year in Toronto and the previous season in Atlanta, his two best years as a pro. No drop off at all going from Coach Bud's beautiful Spurs 2.0 to Casey's ugly Ride or Die.

Toronto's ugly drive and kick offence also created the 4th best 3 pt shooting % in the entire league as a team. Atlanta ranked 15th.

[white men can't jump]

Maybe this is a better question for the JV thread, but does anyone have access to Kyle and DeMar's playoff numbers during the games JV has played, as well as the ones which JV has not played? Seems like they have struggled with JV and have played better in games when he was out.

I bring this up in the Biyombo thread because if the Raptors are committed to the Lowry/DeRozan combo going forward, then maybe they do need to commit to Biyombo as well whom seems to mesh well with their game.

It's really not JV's fault DeMar and Lowry were playing like hot garbage. Anyone trying to make that argument should be banned from this forum.

Without JV we probably get swept in the first round again. And then someone would be saying how it's because we don't have an elite big man to pick up the team when our "all-stars" are struggling. DeMar was playing like an idiot, and Lowry was mostly just missing shots. JV was helping them get open looks and his impact made teams adjust and stop trapping our ballhandlers (the strategy that has suffocated us in previous playoffs and has been an issue in this series with Biz starting). Them playing badly is all on them and to a lesser degree the system for not making the game easier (on everybody) offensively.

[Barolt]

It's really not JV's fault DeMar and Lowry were playing like hot garbage. Anyone trying to make that argument should be banned from this forum.

Without JV we probably get swept in the first round again. And then someone would be saying how it's because we don't have an elite big man to pick up the team when our "all-stars" are struggling. DeMar was playing like an idiot, and Lowry was mostly just missing shots. JV was helping them get open looks and his impact made teams adjust and stop trapping our ballhandlers (the strategy that has suffocated us in previous playoffs and has been an issue in this series with Biz starting).

Literally the only argument for Bismack over JV on offense is this:

"If you aren't going to pass to your center anyways, does it matter if he can catch a ball?"

[DanH]

Maybe this is a better question for the JV thread, but does anyone have access to Kyle and DeMar's playoff numbers during the games JV has played, as well as the ones which JV has not played? Seems like they have struggled with JV and have played better in games when he was out.

I bring this up in the Biyombo thread because if the Raptors are committed to the Lowry/DeRozan combo going forward, then maybe they do need to commit to Biyombo as well whom seems to mesh well with their game.

With Biyombo on the court:
Lowry: 48 TS%
DeRozan: 46 TS%

With JV on the court:
Lowry: 39 TS%
DeRozan: 60 TS%

Seems like a wash, probably more to do with luck as to when each had their best shooting games.

[slaw]

The idea that the system is hard for Toronto's role playing shooters gets floated around here, do we have any evidence for it at all? Isn't it mostly the eye-test judgment that this offence can look damn ugly at times? Because in terms of efficiency and shooting numbers I don't really see a problem.

Carroll's 3-pt attempts and percentage were virtually identical this last year in Toronto and the previous season in Atlanta, his two best years as a pro. No drop off at all going from Coach Bud's beautiful Spurs 2.0 to Casey's ugly Ride or Die.

Toronto's ugly drive and kick offence also created the 4th best 3 pt shooting % in the entire league as a team. Atlanta ranked 15th.

I think some of it with DC is coloured by how little he played (26 games????) and how out of sorts he looked early when they were trying to force feed him the ball the first couple weeks he was here. But, yeah, Carroll was pretty much good Carroll in the aggregate and they got what was expected absent number of games...

As for your general point, I will leave it at 'opinions vary' and slowly walk away.

[golden]

The idea that the system is hard for Toronto's role playing shooters gets floated around here, do we have any evidence for it at all? Isn't it mostly the eye-test judgment that this offence can look damn ugly at times? Because in terms of efficiency and shooting numbers I don't really see a problem.

Carroll's 3-pt attempts and percentage were virtually identical this last year in Toronto and the previous season in Atlanta, his two best years as a pro. No drop off at all going from Coach Bud's beautiful Spurs 2.0 to Casey's ugly Ride or Die.

Toronto's ugly drive and kick offence also created the 4th best 3 pt shooting % in the entire league as a team. Atlanta ranked 15th.

Take a deeper look into Carroll and Joseph, since that's a good comp for system/fit effects. Both of their TS%s dropped significantly (Cojo: .564 to .512, Carroll: .603 to .490) from last season to this season. So let's agree on this first: Carroll and CoJo were much less efficient than they were in their previous systems. Carroll 3P% (.444 vs. .385). .444 3P% is why you pay a role player $15M/year. CoJo 3P% (.364 vs. 273)... again it dropped significantly.

But this is even more interesting....

Carroll


CoJo


Big drop in % of corner 3's and big drop in Assisted 2-pt FGs. To me that indicates that we're turning these guys more into drivers than shooters, than they were previously, and maybe that doesn't work for all players. Anyways, that's my smoking gun evidence. lol.

[Billy103]

Apparently Bizz is not really 23 some people say he's 27 but who knows lol