The feeling of seeing Masai Ujiri doing work in comparison to Bryan Colangelo

[007]

BC is nowhere near the worst GM ever (cough cough Sacramento cough cough), but Masai is great, so there's really no comparison.

[JimiCliff]

I don't think that's fair. I think they knew exactly what they were getting from Nash. He was an All-Star with Dallas after all. Though I do remember people were completely blown away by the deal, but Phoenix made a big presentation and they REALLY wanted Nash.

They knew they were getting a future 2-time MVP?

They knew they were getting a good player, no doubt, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that they projected that team to be as successful as it was.

[Joey]

I don't really buy this line of thinking. The main strength of our team over the last two years has been bench play, and that was all Masai. And as for Masai not changing those starters: his very first move was getting rid of the starting centre. Soon after he gets rid of the starting SF. Then he has trade in place to get rid of the starting PG...only to have it nixed by an owner. And if the PG is gone, the SG might have very well been next. As has been written here ad nauseum, no one expected the team to start playing like they did after the Gay trade; the tear down was under way.

You don't buy this line of thinking? But its a fact...

I'm not saying anything as to where our strengths are, or the reasons behind our 49 wins, but the fact of the matter is, BC brought in 4 of our Starters, and will continue to have a majority on our Starting Lineup this season.

And once again, I firmly believe Masai is a better GM, but to shit all over Colangelo and not give the guy any credit is a little bit misguided in my opinion.

[Joey]

They knew they were getting a future 2-time MVP?

They knew they were getting a good player, no doubt, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that they projected that team to be as successful as it was.

I honestly wouldn't doubt if they had something along those lines in their pitch to him. "Come to Phoenix and you can lead this fast break team to a Ring! You can be an MVP! You can be all of those things in PHX! Not in Dallas though!" .. That IS how you make a good pitch for a FA.

And even if they didn't know they were getting a 2-time MVP, its a little unfair to say they lucked into him essentially.

[JimiCliff]

You don't buy this line of thinking? But its a fact...

I'm not saying anything as to where our strengths are, or the reasons behind our 49 wins, but the fact of the matter is, BC brought in 4 of our Starters, and will continue to have a majority on our Starting Lineup this season.

And once again, I firmly believe Masai is a better GM, but to shit all over Colangelo and not give the guy any credit is a little bit misguided in my opinion.

Well, it's a fact that we won, but you're saying it's because of BC's starters; I'm saying the bench that Masai built was more important.

Colangelo was here for a long time. Of course he was going to accumulate assets - that's something that happens when you're around for a long time. When you tally up the actual value of the assets Masai had to work with coming in, I'd say that it was actually underwhelming, and less than you'd expect to be handed from a long-tenured GM with a relatively poor W-L record.

[Joey]

Well, it's a fact that we won, but you're saying it's because of BC's starters; I'm saying the bench that Masai built was more important.

I never said that, and I even clarified again the very next line that I wasn't saying that. I'm just saying its a Fact that 4 of our 5 starters last year, and 3 of our 5 starters this year, are BC guys. That's all. Make of that what you will.

[JimiCliff]

I honestly wouldn't doubt if they had something along those lines in their pitch to him. "Come to Phoenix and you can lead this fast break team to a Ring! You can be an MVP! You can be all of those things in PHX! Not in Dallas though!" .. That IS how you make a good pitch for a FA.

And even if they didn't know they were getting a 2-time MVP, its a little unfair to say they lucked into him essentially.

The MVP comment was meant to be facetious; I don't put too much stock into awards, especially not Nash's.

But if they didn't foresee Nash playing as well as he did, how is it unfair to call it luck that he did? That's basically the definition of luck, imo.

[Joey]

The MVP comment was meant to be facetious; I don't put too much stock into awards, especially not Nash's.

But if they didn't foresee Nash playing as well as he did, how is it unfair to call it luck that he did. That's basically the definition of luck, imo.

Once again, you're twisting my words. While I agreed that they perhaps didn't know he would be the MVP, I do believe they knew exactly the type of player, and the quality of player they were getting, and knew he would fit perfectly in their system and be the perfect Quarterback for that system. I'd say that's "foreseeing how well he would play", but that's all speculation on my part, so who am I to say.

[JimiCliff]

Once again, you're twisting my words. While I agreed that they perhaps didn't know he would be the MVP, I do believe they knew exactly the type of player, and the quality of player they were getting, and knew he would fit perfectly in their system and be the perfect Quarterback for that system. I'd say that's "foreseeing how well he would play", but that's all speculation on my part, so who am I to say.

Lol, I'm not trying to twist your words, honestly!

I'm just of the opinion that that Phoenix team was total lightning in a bottle, and difficult (if not impossible) to replicate. Obviously, it didn't happen here.

To really know what kind of GM Colangelo is, we'll need to see him with a couple more team, I think.

[Apollo]

I disagree. We already have more than enough time, more so than anyone around here needs for any other player, coach or manager they judge. Colangelo's history suggests he's a gambler, wheeler and dealer who had his system work in one place but couldn't get it to work in another. People forget that he spent a third of his time trying to convince Bosh to stay by way of taking daring moves to push the team to the next level. He then spent another third trying to recover from losing Bosh for nothing. While courting Bosh he lost his best play maker (TJ Ford) to injuries and it really killed his value. He also lost his top leader and glue guy Jorge Garbajosa to essentially a career ending injury.

To discredit Colangelo drafting Nash and then bringing him back because he's not psychic is a little too much. Come on guys. Let's just toss Marion, Amare and all those other guys out the window too then. He didn't know who was going to succeed for absolutely certain so he deserves no credit for identifying those key pieces that could reach great heights. All GMs in the league deserve no credit.

Teams all over the league build like Colangelo built the Suns. He built them through smart drafting, smart trades and signings. They all have different philosophies and abilities and strengths but how they did it is similar at the basic level.

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[92TillInfinity]

Masai's no-tie game is way stronger.

[JimiCliff]

Masai's no-tie game is way stronger.

They're both pretty damn strong though

[Apollo]

If it were a tie, Colangelo's collars be the tie breaker.

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[McRealistic]

I don't like the options that are provided under the poll and once again we see RR over reacting to a summer moves (66%) just like last summer.

The truth of the matter is that I still think MU made a huge mistake keeping DC and after that, made a bigger mistake for not hiring a top notch offensive assistant for him.

I also think MU is making a mistake keeping KL in this team because I don't think KL will ever be a pass first PG.

Unless DC uses JJ at PF ( highly doubt it), we still have a huge hole in that position which will really hurt our team.

Now, what is a fact is that MU has shown he can build a good regular season team by little over paying hard worker players and having a balanced bench. He did that in Denver and made a team that won 50 game.

He did a great job of that with Raptors this summer ( Carroll and Joseph) and this team is better equipped to win more regular season games.

However, MU has not shown us to be able to get a star and make the next step in building a team. That is missing from him resume in Denver and he has not been able to do so here either.

We are missing the option #1 in this team and some can argue that we are missing option #2 as well if DD does not improve this season and make the transition.

So in summary, for me, MU has made some mistakes but has made some decent moves as well but this team, will not be able to Win a play off series this year unless JV, Ross, Joseph and DD made a significant improvements and KL changes the way he runs the team.

[Bonus Jonas]

I don't like the options that are provided under the poll and once again we see RR over reacting to a summer moves (66%) just like last summer.

The truth of the matter is that I still think MU made a huge mistake keeping DC and after that, made a bigger mistake for not hiring a top notch offensive assistant for him.

I also think MU is making a mistake keeping KL in this team because I don't think KL will ever be a pass first PG.

Unless DC uses JJ at PF ( highly doubt it), we still have a huge hole in that position which will really hurt our team.

Now, what is a fact is that MU has shown he can build a good regular season team by little over paying hard worker players and having a balanced bench. He did that in Denver and made a team that won 50 game.

He did a great job of that with Raptors this summer ( Carroll and Joseph) and this team is better equipped to win more regular season games.

However, MU has not shown us to be able to get a star and make the next step in building a team. That is missing from him resume in Denver and he has not been able to do so here either.

We are missing the option #1 in this team and some can argue that we are missing option #2 as well if DD does not improve this season and make the transition.

So in summary, for me, MU has made some mistakes but has made some decent moves as well but this team, will not be able to Win a play off series this year unless JV, Ross, Joseph and DD made a significant improvements and KL changes the way he runs the team.

Although I prefer it, you don't need a pass first PG to win in the playoffs