Legacy League: Game # 4 - Joey v. Mack11 (Winner: Joey)

[Axel]

LOL meanwhile the guy with the most points in league history is signally for the ball down low.

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While getting looked off worse than JV.

[planetmars]

Joey just has a really good overall team but his back court is so weak defensively. Jesus was alright but he's going to have to help cover both Wade and TMac and that's just too much work (Artest will have his hands full with Melo). Defensively Wilt is going to be guarded by arguably the best center who's ever played the game. KAJ was on 5 all-defensive first teams.. so I give the edge to Kareem there. Bosh isn't going to have fun guarding Kemp but Bosh has the length and mobility to stay in front of him.

And if you think Mack's team is full of chuckers.. wait until AI sees the court.

If Mack's team had a PG that would prefer to facilitate over score than in my opinion it would be a landslide.. I'll give him the vote regardless though.

[planetmars]

TMac and Wade are both underrated facilitators.. TMAC averaged 6.5 assists per game in Houston one season. Wade averaged 7.5.

It's not going to be as much of a one man show as people expect. Both TMAC and Wade played with dominant big men as well (Ming and Shaq respectively). So they know how to get the big guy involved.

[JawsGT]

Can't see how Wade, TMac and Melo can coexist. Too many scorers on this team. Gotta go with Joey here, but my only concern is whether Nash can be effective being guarded by Wade. If Nash is neutered, Mack's team got a chance I think. But Iverson and the post play could be enough to create sufficient opportunities. Gotta go with Joey, but honestly, I don't see either of these teams advancing further.

[BobLoblaw]

Joey just has a really good overall team but his back court is so weak defensively. Jesus was alright but he's going to have to help cover both Wade and TMac and that's just too much work (Artest will have his hands full with Melo). Defensively Wilt is going to be guarded by arguably the best center who's ever played the game. KAJ was on 5 all-defensive first teams.. so I give the edge to Kareem there. Bosh isn't going to have fun guarding Kemp but Bosh has the length and mobility to stay in front of him.

And if you think Mack's team is full of chuckers.. wait until AI sees the court.

If Mack's team had a PG that would prefer to facilitate over score than in my opinion it would be a landslide.. I'll give him the vote regardless though.

I don't mind one heat check guy on the team actually, especially off the bench and someone as great as AI. If he's hot, he's killing the other team. If he's not, in his prime he could still put everyone out of position and distort defenses just by moving in circles through the paint, without even touching the ball.

I don't like multiple chuckers and ball stoppers together, that can cause trouble. Mack does have a lot of those, Maravich, Melo, Dantley, also T-Mac used to fall in love with long 2s too much, especially on the Rockets. This team will have at least 2, sometimes 3 of these guys together. For example, if Maravich and Dantley are on the floor together, one of them will be almost useless on each possession, and neither played defense.

I agree on Wade / TMac backcourt, I'm ok with it too. Great size, hard to guard, and they should be able to run an offense. But I'd prefer non-chuckers around them, guys who can move the ball, hit 3s, cut and finish, play defense.

Still, regardless of that, Dantley, Maravich and Melo were / are all great talents.

[Joey]

Rebuttals

there's a reason Kareem is the all-time leader in scoring, aint nobody stopping the sky hook

Because he didn't have to play against Wilt or Bill Russell (except for his first 3 seasons). Prime-Wilt (Bill too) could have easily stopped Kareem and his skyhook - here's Old-Wilt blocking the skyhook twice in a row - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwHP04TWOps; put Prime-Wilt against Kareem, and Wilt would have owned him with superior strength, leaping ability, IQ and stamina (Wilt averaged over 48mpg in one season).

Also considering that Wilt retired while still really in an extended prime and dominating (led the league with 19rpg in his final season, which is more than Kareem EVER averaged) and playing for a 60 win team with Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and Gail Goodrich, I'd say Wilt handed that Scoring Title to Kareem. Haha

I dont see how Ray Allen or AI have a chance of stopping Tmac.

TMac and Wade are both underrated facilitators.. TMAC averaged 6.5 assists per game in Houston one season. Wade averaged 7.5.

TMac is a loser who couldn't ever get out of the 1st Round (I love TMac, so that hurt to write.. LOL). When TMac and Wade both had their career highs in Assists, they both also had their career highs in Usage (around 35%)... tack on Carmelo's career USG% of around 30%, and you've reached saturation; there's just no way they can all be effective on the same team - TMac is not a stand around, spot up shooter (throughout his prime he maybe averaged 35% from 3), and neither is Carmelo Anthony (not sure what to consider his prime, but he's career 34.5%), and neither is particularly adept off the ball.

Substitutions
In terms of substitutions, Wilt easily plays 48 minutes a night (he averaged 48+ for a season, as well as for several entire playoffs and a Championship run), so when Cousins subs in for Bosh or Kareem, then I can put Reed on Cousins, and Kemp could very easily stay with Anthony and hound the crap out of him, which then gets full body coverage on TMac by Ron or Eddie (had a 97 DRtg + offers fantastic spacing as well with about 38-40 3P% in his prime on more attempts than Melo or TMac). This all leaves Wade on an island while on offense, and trying to stay in front of AI or Nash on defense (no one is staying in front of AI, and Nash is just too crafty), which again, given the screens that are coming MACKs way, will be very difficult.

[Mr.Z]

Gotta go with Joey here.
Neither team has many great defenders. Backcourts are pretty even but I give Joeys frontcourt the edge

[Miekenstien]

"TMac is a loser" haha

[Miekenstien]

people really don't think that back court can fit together. i think the less kareem has the ball the worse off the team is here as well

[BobLoblaw]

I should vote before this ends, I'll stick with Team Mack11, though it's a close matchup. It looks like it doesn't matter anyway, vote difference is huge.

Mack's team just has more talent, which decides it for me. Both teams I think have some fit issues, it's maybe a bigger issue for Team Mack, but he also has more matchup advantages (who does Nash defend). So I just have to go with talent.

I'm not sure what happens with prime Wilt vs. Kareem, so I don't judge that one way or the other. Maybe Wilt was a bigger talent, but will prime Wilt put the effort to stay with Kareem defensively? Maybe he was stronger too, but will he use that strength? In my eyes, Wilt was kind of soft.

[Jangles]

Joey's gameplanning would make me vote for a team that even had Bargnani on it...

[Bonus Jonas]

Joey really twisting stats in his last post. T-Mac averaged 38% on 6 attempts per game from three one year and Melo averaged 40% on 4 attempts per game. I vote Mack11 just for that. Sorry Joey

[Bonus Jonas]

Just for that? Lol Seems weird, but thats cool.

I'm not twisting anything - I said throughout his prime. Which is fairly accurate actually.

Yes, he had ONE season at 38%, but his next 5 seasons were 34%, 32%, 31%, 34% and 29% .....

I don't know if I even voted in time, can't tell on mobile but yeah I wasn't feeling your roster too much either. A D-Wade post up would be a score for Mack11 every trip in my opinion. And the usage argument could be made about any team in this tournament. Wasn't in love with Mack's team either but I think they'd win in a game

It is what is is though

[Bonus Jonas]

Really? Because the paint is going to be pretty crowded with his roster, allowing very little room for him to work, and quite a few big bodies looking to stop him ... Also tot sure how DWade defends the Nash pick-and-roll, or even just stay in front of AI, but I guess we're not talking about those factors. Interesting opinion either way, cheers man!

In my opinion, TMac and Melo have shown that they can hit the three. Along with Bosh. And it's not like Wilt can leave Kareem.

And my opinion man, no need to get defensive. Unless you're not but that's the vibe I'm getting

[Joey]

In my opinion, TMac and Melo have shown that they can hit the three. Along with Bosh. And it's not like Wilt can leave Kareem.

And my opinion man, no need to get defensive. Unless you're not but that's the vibe I'm getting

Not at all! I love hearing all the different takes on things. Can't say I agree with all of them, but thats the joy of Legacy League!