Everything Climate Change

[Machine]

As fascinating as this discussion is, just want to point out again that it is irrelevant to the question posed in the thread, and the confusing of this sort of discussion with the debate over the science is exactly the problem with the discourse surrounding climate change.

If all involved could accept that there is a problem, and that we are definitely contributing in a major way to it, and agree that the science supports those conclusions (as the scientific community has), then we could move more practically to the discussion of how to deal with it. The concerns being discussed in the thread now bleeding back into the discussion around the science, or the denial of the science so as not to have to deal with these discussions, is a big problem.

Huge.

[3inthekeon]

Well you can start by looking at the levels of debt in Canada.

A good portion of that is our culture of instant self-gratification. Canadians were great savers when interest rates were high. Now, with little present incentive to save, low interest rates and multitudinous opportunities to spend money we don't have, high debt levels are inevitable.

Drawing a parallel to the topic of climate change, our spending sprees do help drive the economy, and the true repercussions are most likely be felt in the future.

[KHD]

Yes, but that's just 1 cherry-picked measure.

What about the cumulative effects of increased life expectancy, increased literacy, decreased infant mortality, decreased crime rates, and decreased poverty, etc.?

I heard / read a quote from a professor a while back that went something like:

"the top headline every day for the past two decades could have been: ' the number of people in extreme poverty dropped by 100 000 since yesterday'".

Quality of life is exponentially better, on a global average, than it has ever been.

[KHD]

As fascinating as this discussion is, just want to point out again that it is irrelevant to the question posed in the thread, and the confusing of this sort of discussion with the debate over the science is exactly the problem with the discourse surrounding climate change.

If all involved could accept that there is a problem, and that we are definitely contributing in a major way to it, and agree that the science supports those conclusions (as the scientific community has), then we could move more practically to the discussion of how to deal with it. The concerns being discussed in the thread now bleeding back into the discussion around the science, or the denial of the science so as not to have to deal with these discussions, is a big problem.

I am a scientist (not in climate research admittedly), and not in any way a climate change denier.

However, I will say that i find it difficult to sift through the ridiculous pie in the sky "proposals" to find things that actually make sense when relevant global economic and political factors are considered.

The extreme elements on both sides need a healthy dose of realism so that we can actually make incremental progress.

[rocwell]

Bit ot..

I was wondering last night... How climate change deniers can explain coral bleaching in Australia? You can't really blame a perfect storm of stress factors or unsustainable fishing practices now.

[Apollo]

I heard / read a quote from a professor a while back that went something like:

"the top headline every day for the past two decades could have been: ' the number of people in extreme poverty dropped by 100 000 since yesterday'".

Quality of life is exponentially better, on a global average, than it has ever been.

Yes, those in some impoverished countries are catching up. Meanwhile in the western world our debt skyrockets and our cost of living rises, rises, rises with no end in sight at a rate higher than most see annual pay increases; devaluation is a constant chipping away of our purchasing power. There was a time when only one head of a family had to work to pay for everything for their family and their families were much larger. Those days are long gone and it's not because of feminism, it's because of inflation. Inflation directly impacts our standard cost of living, which impacts overall quality of life. With these new taxes and regulation you'll see it get tighter and tighter. Demand for all the meaningless shit will drop and being a consumer nation we'll see that affect jobs across the board.

[Apollo]

Bit ot..

I was wondering last night... How climate change deniers can explain coral bleaching in Australia? You can't really blame a perfect storm of stress factors or unsustainable fishing practices now.

Is anyone really denying the climate is changing anymore?

[rocwell]

Is anyone really denying the climate is changing anymore?

Oh yeah absolutely. Rebs held a fake climate change inquiry just a few months ago with the sole purpose of attacking Penn St Uni's scientist.

[Miekenstien]

Yes, those in some impoverished countries are catching up. Meanwhile in the western world our debt skyrockets and our cost of living rises, rises, rises with no end in sight at a rate higher than most see annual pay increases; devaluation is a constant chipping away of our purchasing power. There was a time when only one head of a family had to work to pay for everything for their family and their families were much larger. Those days are long gone and it's not because of feminism, it's because of inflation. Inflation directly impacts our standard cost of living, which impacts overall quality of life. With these new taxes and regulation you'll see it get tighter and tighter. Demand for all the meaningless shit will drop and being a consumer nation we'll see that affect jobs across the board.

i also think the ease of credit and people choosing to live above their means is a major factor of inflation. best example is my sister, she makes 2200 a month on welfare. there is no way every single retailer, service provider, credit card company etc. knows exactly how much money the government gives away for free.

[Miekenstien]

i believe a much greater cause for global warming than yours or mines car is deforestation, especially around the equator. this and the giant ball of plasma 93 million miles away that is hotter now than when you began reading this post, and will never not continue to get hotter until it shrinks into a white dwarf.

[Joey]

i believe a much greater cause for global warming than yours or mines car is deforestation, especially around the equator. this and the giant ball of plasma 93 million miles away that is hotter now than when you began reading this post, and will never not continue to get hotter until it shrinks into a white dwarf.

I was with you until you blamed the sun for Global Warming ... lol

But yes, I agree, that the Corporations are far more of a concern than the average Joe .. but that still isn't a reason why the average Joe shouldn't try and improve upon his impact on the planet.

[rocwell]

If sun was too hot, spongebob would look like this

[Miekenstien]

I was with you until you blamed the sun for Global Warming ... lol

But yes, I agree, that the Corporations are far more of a concern than the average Joe .. but that still isn't a reason why the average Joe shouldn't try and improve upon his impact on the planet.

of course not. the average joe should do what is best. i have said, if you have enough money to buy a green washing machine and don't, you're and asshole. that doesn't mean the government should punish the person who can't afford to go green or the company that supplies those people with affordable products.

[Nilanka]

of course not. the average joe should do what is best. i have said, if you have enough money to buy a green washing machine and don't, you're and asshole. that doesn't mean the government should punish the person who can't afford to go green or the company that supplies those people with affordable products.

That's what tax breaks/rebates are for. To make green tech affordable.

[Nilanka]

Talk show host & climate change denier w no science bckgrd named as USDA's top scientist. Could it get more stupid? https://t.co/IA4K4veo3n

— Lawrence M. Krauss (@LKrauss1) July 20, 2017