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Should we look at the triangle offense?

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  • #31
    raptors999 wrote: View Post
    KL being a good shooter is fine but another part is the bigs need to be good passers and play in the high post. Triangle won't work if JV can't move out of the low post and be effective or make passes. Kobe and MJ were better catch and shoot players than Demar. Dribbling alot looking for a shot kills the triangle
    Makes sense, I think the biggest hurdle would be JV developing his passing.

    On the catch and shoot thing Demar has always been strong, just not from 3. I remember early in his career there was some hope he would develop into a Rip Hamilton type because he looked good curling around screens into catch and shoot situations.

    Also, props for trying to keep the thread on track.
    "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

    -Churchill

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    • #32
      Axel wrote: View Post
      In a word, no.

      No one has been successful running the triangle without either Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant.

      Every team that tried without those guys, pretty quick, the coach was fired, the offence was scrapped, or both.

      There are lots of motion offences that would take advantage of a balanced scoring attack and our personnel, but this is not one of them.
      I agree totally, but to play dark side here, isn't DeMar DeRozan's play STYLE similar? Post-ups, free-throw line, mid-ranged game, even the similar way they fade-away, moves with their backs-to-the-basket, etc.
      Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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      • #33
        ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
        I agree totally, but to play dark side here, isn't DeMar DeRozan's play STYLE similar? Post-ups, free-throw line, mid-ranged game, even the similar way they fade-away, moves with their backs-to-the-basket, etc.
        Lol oh man. Can of worms award goes to....

        I think we can all agree that Demar cannot replicate what Kobe/MJ did.
        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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        • #34
          ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
          I agree totally, but to play dark side here, isn't DeMar DeRozan's play STYLE similar? Post-ups, free-throw line, mid-ranged game, even the similar way they fade-away, moves with their backs-to-the-basket, etc.
          Don't think it's about style but attention. Both MJ and Kobe demand doubles plus the best defender. Also each could score off the catch or just 1-2 dribbles

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          • #35
            I think the Triangle is successful when there really isn't a dominant ball-handler aside from the main option offensively. Like someone had mentioned above, some of the successful triangle teams have had point guards who defer to the ball, rather than have it more often than not: Paxson, Kerr, Fisher; just some examples.

            Lowry is the most dominant ball-handler for the Raptors, and a lot of the offensive creation is done either by him or DeRozan. The style of play they naturally do is the drive-&-kick, or the pick-&-roll, where quite frankly, it's super ball stopping. So, in any case, for the Raptors to entail more ball movement, either set in a motion offence (which I personally don't believe would work with this team) or a system, or plays that involve moving the ball.

            Again, I think the Raptors are moving it a little better, but the problem, is the intent; they're moving the ball around without much intention of it actually going to the basket.
            Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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            • #36
              Axel wrote: View Post
              Lol oh man. Can of worms award goes to....

              I think we can all agree that Demar cannot replicate what Kobe/MJ did.
              You're not understanding my argument, and why I bolded style. I never said anything about replicating the production or of what they did in the league, I'm talking specifically about the way they play, simple as that, as I've also provided examples of what they do similarly.

              EDIT*

              Congrats on the gold promotion, by the way! Things have switched in the last couple years, hasn't it? Haha, I remember being a moderator. Anyways, good on ya', and let's get to arguing.
              Last edited by ReubenJRD; Fri Nov 6, 2015, 06:07 PM.
              Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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              • #37
                raptors999 wrote: View Post
                Don't think it's about style but attention. Both MJ and Kobe demand doubles plus the best defender. Also each could score off the catch or just 1-2 dribbles
                DeMar does not attract NEARLY the same attention as either of those two have in the past, but it's very arguable that DeRozan's the oppositions biggest hurdle defensively.
                Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                • #38
                  ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
                  I think the Triangle is successful when there really isn't a dominant ball-handler aside from the main option offensively. Like someone had mentioned above, some of the successful triangle teams have had point guards who defer to the ball, rather than have it more often than not: Paxson, Kerr, Fisher; just some examples.

                  Lowry is the most dominant ball-handler for the Raptors, and a lot of the offensive creation is done either by him or DeRozan. The style of play they naturally do is the drive-&-kick, or the pick-&-roll, where quite frankly, it's super ball stopping. So, in any case, for the Raptors to entail more ball movement, either set in a motion offence (which I personally don't believe would work with this team) or a system, or plays that involve moving the ball.

                  Again, I think the Raptors are moving it a little better, but the problem, is the intent; they're moving the ball around without much intention of it actually going to the basket.
                  I was going to say the Spurs motion offense but I think it's been done to death. Demar like Parker can't shoot and Carroll is familiar with it.

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                  • #39
                    raptors999 wrote: View Post
                    I was going to say the Spurs motion offense but I think it's been done to death. Demar like Parker can't shoot and Carroll is familiar with it.
                    I thought that was originally the direction they were going to go with once Joseph and Carroll were acquired, but haven't seen anything of it yet, if that was even their target initially.
                    Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                    • #40
                      ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
                      I thought that was originally the direction they were going to go with once Joseph and Carroll were acquired, but haven't seen anything of it yet, if that was even their target initially.
                      RR should analyze what it would take to implement it on the second unit, don't think Ross or 2Pats are seeing the ball enough. CoJo was more scorer than Parker when he was starting however

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                      • #41
                        ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
                        You're not understanding my argument, and why I bolded style. I never said anything about replicating the production or of what they did in the league, I'm talking specifically about the way they play, simple as that, as I've also provided examples of what they do similarly.

                        EDIT*

                        Congrats on the gold promotion, by the way! Things have switched in the last couple years, hasn't it? Haha, I remember being a moderator. Anyways, good on ya', and let's get to arguing.
                        No I got what you are implying, but based on how the triangle has failed at other stops, that would have had players capable of playing that similar style, I still don't believe it would work without a MJ/Kobe level star. If Durant walks in and says, I want the triangle, maybe it works. But to try it for a player of caliber that we currently have, it's a massive risk on a strategy that has not yet been proven to be replicable.

                        It's funny, when you post my first thought was, isn't his name in gold? Lol
                        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                        • #42
                          Axel wrote: View Post
                          No I got what you are implying, but based on how the triangle has failed at other stops, that would have had players capable of playing that similar style, I still don't believe it would work without a MJ/Kobe level star. If Durant walks in and says, I want the triangle, maybe it works. But to try it for a player of caliber that we currently have, it's a massive risk on a strategy that has not yet been proven to be replicable.

                          It's funny, when you post my first thought was, isn't his name in gold? Lol
                          I agree with you totally, just trying to see if anyone saw my argument, considering DeRozan's play style is very much similar to those two greats. I mentioned in a separate post, I think it also factors in who the point guard is, because it seems the triangle fairs well when the point guard defers to the ball rather than being dominant with it; that would mean if Chris Paul was my point guard I wouldn't go anywhere near a triangle offence.

                          Yeah I've been so far away from this site, and too inconsistent as well. I love this site, can't wait to start adding a little more throughout the year. haha
                          Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                          • #43
                            ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
                            I agree with you totally, just trying to see if anyone saw my argument, considering DeRozan's play style is very much similar to those two greats. I mentioned in a separate post, I think it also factors in who the point guard is, because it seems the triangle fairs well when the point guard defers to the ball rather than being dominant with it; that would mean if Chris Paul was my point guard I wouldn't go anywhere near a triangle offence.

                            Yeah I've been so far away from this site, and too inconsistent as well. I love this site, can't wait to start adding a little more throughout the year. haha
                            Glad to have you back.
                            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Axel wrote: View Post
                              Lol oh man. Can of worms award goes to....

                              I think we can all agree that Demar cannot replicate what Kobe/MJ did.
                              Demar=Kobe+MJ+the 1972 Dolphins.

                              I thought that was pretty clear.
                              "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                              -Churchill

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                hateslosing wrote: View Post
                                Demar=Kobe+MJ+the 1972 Dolphins.

                                I thought that was pretty clear.
                                Think comparing Demar to MJ/Kobe isn't as accurate as comparing him to Melo. He stops the ball alot. MJ and Kobe were pretty explosive off of catches

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