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  • #46
    magoon wrote: View Post
    I think two things will happen.

    1. SAC will trade Cousins instead of firing Karl, because at this point they're already on the hook for one ex-coach's salary (Malone) and they don't want be on the hook for a second's salary as well. Cousins is a fantastic player, but Kevin Love was a great player in Minnesota and at a certain point you have to admit that it's not going to happen with this guy.

    2. If he goes anywhere, Boogie's going to Boston. I'm not Bill Simmons; it just makes sense. Boston can offer multiple draft picks, including the near-priceless Nets pick this year (which is almost certainly going to end up top three) and whatever players they trade to make up salary will be solid replacements. I mean, the easiest answer for the trade is David Lee plus picks, and David Lee is both a good player who can potentially be moved later for more value before the deadline AND he's expiring salary to boot. Or maybe they do a bunch of young players - say Olynyk, Sullinger and Thomas.

    There's just no way we can beat Boston's potential offer for Boogie. Ainge has been stockpiling resources for years precisely for this kind of scenario and nearly snagged Kevin Love with it last year - and the Nets pick is worth much, much more now.
    Maybe things have changed in Sactown (who the hell knows) but the Kings were pretty clear over the summer that they weren't interested in picks for Cousins - they wanted players. Again who knows what the hell the Kings are thinking or doing.

    Also, I don't think the majority owner there is to concerned about paying two ex-coaches, so I wouldn't assume Karl is safe at all.

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    • #47
      slaw wrote: View Post
      Maybe things have changed in Sactown (who the hell knows) but the Kings were pretty clear over the summer that they weren't interested in picks for Cousins - they wanted players.
      But that's the beauty of Boston: Boston can offer both picks and players. They won't trade Marcus Smart, but pretty much everybody else is on the table and practically everybody else Boston has at least a rotation NBA player and some of the potential tradeables (Olynyk, for example) have at least a reasonable shot at being stars.

      Comment


      • #48
        Cousins is a shit head...no thanks
        For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

        Comment


        • #49
          For DMC you'd have to think the topic starts and ends with JV & Derozan.

          Comment


          • #50
            If they keep Karl he won't want JV

            Comment


            • #51
              magoon wrote: View Post
              I think two things will happen.

              1. SAC will trade Cousins instead of firing Karl, because at this point they're already on the hook for one ex-coach's salary (Malone) and they don't want be on the hook for a second's salary as well. Cousins is a fantastic player, but Kevin Love was a great player in Minnesota and at a certain point you have to admit that it's not going to happen with this guy.

              2. If he goes anywhere, Boogie's going to Boston. I'm not Bill Simmons; it just makes sense. Boston can offer multiple draft picks, including the near-priceless Nets pick this year (which is almost certainly going to end up top three) and whatever players they trade to make up salary will be solid replacements. I mean, the easiest answer for the trade is David Lee plus picks, and David Lee is both a good player who can potentially be moved later for more value before the deadline AND he's expiring salary to boot. Or maybe they do a bunch of young players - say Olynyk, Sullinger and Thomas.

              There's just no way we can beat Boston's potential offer for Boogie. Ainge has been stockpiling resources for years precisely for this kind of scenario and nearly snagged Kevin Love with it last year - and the Nets pick is worth much, much more now.
              The Kings owner is a billionaire who bought the team as a flashy toy, he could literally wipe his ass with Karl's entire salary and not miss it one bit. Vivek wants to win badly, hence why he has no intention of trading Boogie. Expect them to fire Karl and throw huge money at some other coach (Thibs, Ollie, some other hot name).

              The Kings aren't in a situation like the Raps where the ownership is mainly concerned with the bottom line because they have shareholders to answer to. You have to look at it in the proper context. Karl hasn't done anything to show he's more key to winning than having DMC down low.

              Comment


              • #52
                Apart from Magoon I notice that everyone while agreeing DC is a wonderful talent has not considered which of the other teams in the L would be competition for his services.

                Surely there are others other than just Boston...LAL comes immediately to mind but the 2 franchises hate each other and they may not have the pieces. I can even see Minny trading Towns for DC. How about the Mavs...Cuban would be all over this. Portland? Denver...reuniting DC with Malone?

                ps...I read a piece where someone (anonymous) on the team mentioned a meeting Divac had with the team lately about their thoughts about firing Karl....how crazy is that? Vivek as well is under the gun with his minority ownership group. Personally I think they would rather fire Karl than trade DMC. And oh...Gay indicated he was unhappy with Karl as well!! Maybe the stat sheets are being distributed after games lol.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Letter N wrote: View Post
                  For DMC you'd have to think the topic starts and ends with JV & Derozan.
                  I would make that deal as long as we got either Beli or Meclemore included.


                  Lowry
                  Beli
                  Carroll
                  Patterson/Draft pick
                  Boogie.


                  LOTS of Capspace in offseason for a big free agent


                  Daaaammmmnnnnn....

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Bendit wrote: View Post
                    Apart from Magoon I notice that everyone while agreeing DC is a wonderful talent has not considered which of the other teams in the L would be competition for his services.

                    Surely there are others other than just Boston...LAL comes immediately to mind but the 2 franchises hate each other and they may not have the pieces. I can even see Minny trading Towns for DC. How about the Mavs...Cuban would be all over this. Portland? Denver...reuniting DC with Malone?
                    It's not a question of other teams not being interested. It's simple math: nobody can realistically outbid Boston for DMC. Minnesota isn't going to trade KAT for Boogie - they're comparable players in terms of star potential, but KAT is less... dramatic than Boogie is, to put it mildly. Dallas has literally nothing to offer - no draft picks, no players, nothing. Portland has young players they can trade, but Boston has better ones (since Portland isn't trading McCollum and Lillard) and all those picks. Orlando could do Vucevic/Hezonja/a first-rounder, maybe, and that's pretty good, but Orlando doesn't need to give away the farm to get Boogie, just like Minnesota doesn't - they're accelerating out of their rebuilds into competitiveness fast enough as it is. The Knicks could do it, but it would almost certainly mean trading Kristaps, and do you want to trade the new favorite player of every Knick fan who's also got a much cheaper salary for the next four years?

                    Boston is the only team that meets all of the following criteria:

                    1. Is trying to compete right now;
                    2. Has good young players but not really a potential star player, and certainly doesn't have young players they are unwilling to trade;
                    3. Has a wealth of draft picks.

                    Nobody's going to be able to outbid them. Nobody. It's entirely feasible that Boston can offer Sacramento Brooklyn's 2016 and 2018 picks, the pickswap with Brooklyn in 2017, plus... let's say Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder, perhaps? Or Crowder/Olynyk/Sullinger, which also works? That is literally a wealth of players and picks Sacramento gets in exchange for Boogie - the next three Brooklyn picks will ALL be lottery picks unless asteroids strike half the Eastern Conference cities. Any player Boston offers which Sacramento doesn't want, Sacramento can turn around to the rest of the league and say, for example, "hey, we've been offered Jae Crowder but we have Rudy Gay already, does anybody want a Jae Crowder" and multiple teams will say "yes" because Crowder's a good player and Sacramento can literally get players from across the league that they want for Boogie. If Sacramento doesn't want the picks (and it's stupid that they wouldn't, but whatever, it's Sacramento) those picks are going to have amazing value over the next three years and will have immense trade value.

                    If Sacramento trades Boogie, it's to Boston. Nothing else makes sense.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      magoon wrote: View Post
                      It's not a question of other teams not being interested. It's simple math: nobody can realistically outbid Boston for DMC. Minnesota isn't going to trade KAT for Boogie - they're comparable players in terms of star potential, but KAT is less... dramatic than Boogie is, to put it mildly. Dallas has literally nothing to offer - no draft picks, no players, nothing. Portland has young players they can trade, but Boston has better ones (since Portland isn't trading McCollum and Lillard) and all those picks. Orlando could do Vucevic/Hezonja/a first-rounder, maybe, and that's pretty good, but Orlando doesn't need to give away the farm to get Boogie, just like Minnesota doesn't - they're accelerating out of their rebuilds into competitiveness fast enough as it is. The Knicks could do it, but it would almost certainly mean trading Kristaps, and do you want to trade the new favorite player of every Knick fan who's also got a much cheaper salary for the next four years?

                      Boston is the only team that meets all of the following criteria:

                      1. Is trying to compete right now;
                      2. Has good young players but not really a potential star player, and certainly doesn't have young players they are unwilling to trade;
                      3. Has a wealth of draft picks.

                      Nobody's going to be able to outbid them. Nobody. It's entirely feasible that Boston can offer Sacramento Brooklyn's 2016 and 2018 picks, the pickswap with Brooklyn in 2017, plus... let's say Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder, perhaps? Or Crowder/Olynyk/Sullinger, which also works? That is literally a wealth of players and picks Sacramento gets in exchange for Boogie - the next three Brooklyn picks will ALL be lottery picks unless asteroids strike half the Eastern Conference cities. Any player Boston offers which Sacramento doesn't want, Sacramento can turn around to the rest of the league and say, for example, "hey, we've been offered Jae Crowder but we have Rudy Gay already, does anybody want a Jae Crowder" and multiple teams will say "yes" because Crowder's a good player and Sacramento can literally get players from across the league that they want for Boogie. If Sacramento doesn't want the picks (and it's stupid that they wouldn't, but whatever, it's Sacramento) those picks are going to have amazing value over the next three years and will have immense trade value.

                      If Sacramento trades Boogie, it's to Boston. Nothing else makes sense.
                      Depends on what sacramento wants.

                      If they do not want to go into a phase of losing and relying on draft picks they may not like bostons package...as it is geared towards a rebuild.

                      there are deals that would allow them to remain competitive now.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        magoon wrote: View Post
                        If Sacramento trades Boogie, it's to Boston. Nothing else makes sense.

                        Nah, Knicks trade for Porzingis is the best. New York does it because they're wasting the last of Carmelo's prime right now, and the fans would be fine with it, because with Melo/Cousins, and then a couple of other small additions, you're contending.

                        Plus, if I'm Sacto, the Boston offer just isn't enough. But Staps is.
                        "Stop eating your sushi."
                        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                        - Jack Armstrong

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          magoon wrote: View Post
                          It's not a question of other teams not being interested. It's simple math: nobody can realistically outbid Boston for DMC. Minnesota isn't going to trade KAT for Boogie - they're comparable players in terms of star potential, but KAT is less... dramatic than Boogie is, to put it mildly. Dallas has literally nothing to offer - no draft picks, no players, nothing. Portland has young players they can trade, but Boston has better ones (since Portland isn't trading McCollum and Lillard) and all those picks. Orlando could do Vucevic/Hezonja/a first-rounder, maybe, and that's pretty good, but Orlando doesn't need to give away the farm to get Boogie, just like Minnesota doesn't - they're accelerating out of their rebuilds into competitiveness fast enough as it is. The Knicks could do it, but it would almost certainly mean trading Kristaps, and do you want to trade the new favorite player of every Knick fan who's also got a much cheaper salary for the next four years?

                          Boston is the only team that meets all of the following criteria:

                          1. Is trying to compete right now;
                          2. Has good young players but not really a potential star player, and certainly doesn't have young players they are unwilling to trade;
                          3. Has a wealth of draft picks.

                          Nobody's going to be able to outbid them. Nobody. It's entirely feasible that Boston can offer Sacramento Brooklyn's 2016 and 2018 picks, the pickswap with Brooklyn in 2017, plus... let's say Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder, perhaps? Or Crowder/Olynyk/Sullinger, which also works? That is literally a wealth of players and picks Sacramento gets in exchange for Boogie - the next three Brooklyn picks will ALL be lottery picks unless asteroids strike half the Eastern Conference cities. Any player Boston offers which Sacramento doesn't want, Sacramento can turn around to the rest of the league and say, for example, "hey, we've been offered Jae Crowder but we have Rudy Gay already, does anybody want a Jae Crowder" and multiple teams will say "yes" because Crowder's a good player and Sacramento can literally get players from across the league that they want for Boogie. If Sacramento doesn't want the picks (and it's stupid that they wouldn't, but whatever, it's Sacramento) those picks are going to have amazing value over the next three years and will have immense trade value.

                          If Sacramento trades Boogie, it's to Boston. Nothing else makes sense.
                          Thats a decent analysis except that you are making a large presumption that SAC is into draft picks.Eg. how would a player like Gay react to that. Did Karl sign on for a long rebuild? The Kings are moving into a spanking new facility I believe and I dont think that is going to appease the well heeled fan to invest in an expensive suite. I just do not see a good fit with Boston. As a matter of fact I lean towards no trade by the Kings...dumping Karl would be a less costly option strange as that might sound considering his deal. If they do in fact make a deal it would have to be established talent that can be sold immediately to all concerned including the team as fair return. Just thought of Phoenix and the Bucks. Tor can be in there but we will have to pay big.

                          But as someone else said here...who knows what the execs are breathing in their offices in Sactown?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            magoon wrote: View Post
                            It's not a question of other teams not being interested. It's simple math: nobody can realistically outbid Boston for DMC. Minnesota isn't going to trade KAT for Boogie - they're comparable players in terms of star potential, but KAT is less... dramatic than Boogie is, to put it mildly. Dallas has literally nothing to offer - no draft picks, no players, nothing. Portland has young players they can trade, but Boston has better ones (since Portland isn't trading McCollum and Lillard) and all those picks. Orlando could do Vucevic/Hezonja/a first-rounder, maybe, and that's pretty good, but Orlando doesn't need to give away the farm to get Boogie, just like Minnesota doesn't - they're accelerating out of their rebuilds into competitiveness fast enough as it is. The Knicks could do it, but it would almost certainly mean trading Kristaps, and do you want to trade the new favorite player of every Knick fan who's also got a much cheaper salary for the next four years?

                            Boston is the only team that meets all of the following criteria:

                            1. Is trying to compete right now;
                            2. Has good young players but not really a potential star player, and certainly doesn't have young players they are unwilling to trade;
                            3. Has a wealth of draft picks.

                            Nobody's going to be able to outbid them. Nobody. It's entirely feasible that Boston can offer Sacramento Brooklyn's 2016 and 2018 picks, the pickswap with Brooklyn in 2017, plus... let's say Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder, perhaps? Or Crowder/Olynyk/Sullinger, which also works? That is literally a wealth of players and picks Sacramento gets in exchange for Boogie - the next three Brooklyn picks will ALL be lottery picks unless asteroids strike half the Eastern Conference cities. Any player Boston offers which Sacramento doesn't want, Sacramento can turn around to the rest of the league and say, for example, "hey, we've been offered Jae Crowder but we have Rudy Gay already, does anybody want a Jae Crowder" and multiple teams will say "yes" because Crowder's a good player and Sacramento can literally get players from across the league that they want for Boogie. If Sacramento doesn't want the picks (and it's stupid that they wouldn't, but whatever, it's Sacramento) those picks are going to have amazing value over the next three years and will have immense trade value.

                            If Sacramento trades Boogie, it's to Boston. Nothing else makes sense.
                            You're just blindly assuming Sac would want picks and young players back, whereas I find it much more likely they want a star player back, which basically takes Boston out of the running.

                            For instance, Atlanta could offer Horford and Teague for DMC. Teague is an all star PG but expendable because the heir apparent Schroeder looks more than ready to take over. Horford isn't a natural C and is on the last year of his deal. You add those two to Sac and they are a much improved team. Atlanta gets a true C to put next to Millsap, and DMC gets to play the hyrbid C/PF role Horford has been playing in Budenholzer's offense (it's much different than the traditional C role).

                            Miami could offer Bosh and Justise Winslow. They get back an all star PF and a very promising young SF. Miami gets a deadly combo of DMC and Whiteside.

                            The Suns could offer Bledsoe and Chandler or Morris.

                            I could go on and on making much better offers than Boston could come up with if the goal is to get back star players, which is exactly what I think the goal would be if they deal DMC (I still say there is no chance they deal him).

                            Sacramento has had high draft picks every year for like the last 10 years and it hasn't amounted to squat. They're not going to be chomping at the bit to make more useless draft picks, they want established star players.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Primer wrote: View Post
                              You're just blindly assuming Sac would want picks and young players back, whereas I find it much more likely they want a star player back, which basically takes Boston out of the running.

                              For instance, Atlanta could offer Horford and Teague for DMC. Teague is an all star PG but expendable because the heir apparent Schroeder looks more than ready to take over. Horford isn't a natural C and is on the last year of his deal. You add those two to Sac and they are a much improved team. Atlanta gets a true C to put next to Millsap, and DMC gets to play the hyrbid C/PF role Horford has been playing in Budenholzer's offense (it's much different than the traditional C role).

                              Miami could offer Bosh and Justise Winslow. They get back an all star PF and a very promising young SF. Miami gets a deadly combo of DMC and Whiteside.

                              The Suns could offer Bledsoe and Chandler or Morris.

                              I could go on and on making much better offers than Boston could come up with if the goal is to get back star players, which is exactly what I think the goal would be if they deal DMC (I still say there is no chance they deal him).

                              Sacramento has had high draft picks every year for like the last 10 years and it hasn't amounted to squat. They're not going to be chomping at the bit to make more useless draft picks, they want established star players.
                              DMC is going to be K.Love whoever gets him will pay and regret it. Hope it's the Knicks

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Cousins has never had an ORTG over 110 and is a career ORTG @ 102. That's really bad efficiency, especially considering he has an insane USG rate well over 30 (WTF), for the past 3 seasons.

                                He's only had a TS% above 55% once in his career, a few years back. Again, that's pretty bad. It's no wonder he's constantly battling with his coaches over the years, because he's been chucking his teams out of games.

                                DMC is a classic volume "pseudo-star" who will become an addition-by-subtraction for the Kings when they trade him.

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