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Kyle Lowry is awesome and the conversation around this team has officially gone crazy.

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  • #16
    hateslosing wrote: View Post
    That's a fair argument but I'd counter with: you don't trade good players on better contracts. The Joseph problem is a good one to have, and given Casey's desire to play 2 point guards for long stretches, I think he fits well here. Teams that win titles have very good players, players that would start on 80% of the teams in the league, coming off the bench (see Iguodala)

    This team is not ready to win a title as constructed and something needs to change considerably if we are ever going to get there, but trading one of the best players in the league is not the answer. Lowry is not Chris Bosh, this is not a situation where building around him is a bad idea because he's not a top level guy. He is the player we have been waiting for, that we would potentially try to tank for, and it is up to Masai to find that second and third piece that can take us to a title. I'm hopeful that JV might be one of those guys (he's only in his 4th season and, as BC always used to say, centres take 5 years ) and that with some savy off season moves we are just a player way from competing for real.
    Based on the bold, Lowry's age prohibits him from being in his prime when the core of the team will be hitting theirs, especially when you factor in the prospects and upcoming 1st round picks (4 over the next 2 drafts). That's one of the reasons I like the idea of cashing-in Lowry as an asset (and DeRozan), and also a reason why I was on the fence with the Carroll signing.

    For me, if you're trading Lowry (and DeRozan) and investing in a youth movement (doesn't need to be a tank), then I'd also explore trading Carroll as well.

    I doubt Lowry gets traded this season, unless the Raps are well out of a playoff spot come the trade deadline. Even then, I think it's far more likely that Lowry gets moved in the offseason, if he's going to be moved at all.

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    • #17
      DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
      I think you touched on my biggest argument for moving Lowry. He is a great player, but at his age, we need to compete now. I don't think are core is good enough now to make a run, and I don't think our current talent level warrants trading prospects and picks for better role players to compliment our core. Unless we get an amazing free agent in Horford or KD, I just don't see our team being a real playoff heavy weight during Lowry's peak. Thus, I think trading for younger pieces to compliment Cojo and JV, both in age and skills, makes more sense than staying on this treadmill for a few more years.
      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
      Based on the bold, Lowry's age prohibits him from being in his prime when the core of the team will be hitting theirs, especially when you factor in the prospects and upcoming 1st round picks (4 over the next 2 drafts). That's one of the reasons I like the idea of cashing-in Lowry as an asset (and DeRozan), and also a reason why I was on the fence with the Carroll signing.

      For me, if you're trading Lowry (and DeRozan) and investing in a youth movement (doesn't need to be a tank), then I'd also explore trading Carroll as well.

      I doubt Lowry gets traded this season, unless the Raps are well out of a playoff spot come the trade deadline. Even then, I think it's far more likely that Lowry gets moved in the offseason, if he's going to be moved at all.
      Lowry, DD, and Carrol are all in their primes and Valanciunas and Ross will be joining them in about 2 seasons (prime=26-32 ish). I think that's probably what Masai is aiming for, for us to compete for a title in two seasons time after JV has developed some more.

      I think it is far more likely that Masai is going to try to trade the picks for another piece to try to help us win now. Other wise he wouldn't have signed Carrol this summer.
      "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

      -Churchill

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      • #18
        hateslosing wrote: View Post
        Lowry, DD, and Carrol are all in their primes and Valanciunas and Ross will be joining them in about 2 seasons (prime=26-32 ish). I think that's probably what Masai is aiming for, for us to compete for a title in two seasons time after JV has developed some more.

        I think it is far more likely that Masai is going to try to trade the picks for another piece to try to help us win now. Other wise he wouldn't have signed Carrol this summer.
        But as you said in the OP, we aren't currently constructed to compete for a title unless something significant changes.

        The current group is neither young enough to grow together or good enough to compete during their prime seasons.

        Can't see Masai moving picks unless he has to. The value of the player/contract control is too high. Seems much more likely he'd rally around JV (bigger window) and move some of the prime guys for younger players.
        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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        • #19
          Joey wrote: View Post
          Can we not turn this into another Demar thread, please. Lol
          I'm sorry, but that's just a fact by now. This season is the one I watched the most Raps basketball at this time of the year and we could argue that he's playing the best basketball of his career.

          Even still, it is very obvious to me that we should trade him, as mush as I like him and as mush of a good player he is.

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          • #20
            Axel wrote: View Post
            But as you said in the OP, we aren't currently constructed to compete for a title unless something significant changes.

            The current group is neither young enough to grow together or good enough to compete during their prime seasons.

            Can't see Masai moving picks unless he has to. The value of the player/contract control is too high. Seems much more likely he'd rally around JV (bigger window) and move some of the prime guys for younger players.
            I disagree with the bolded but I suppose that's because I think Lowry will be good to go for a while yet. He plays hard basketball but he doesn't rely on speed that much to be successful so I'm hopeful he'll be able to maintain a high level of play into his 30's. I think that if he can play at a high level for 3 more seasons that third season is where JV and TRoss will be coming into their own and is where Masai should be aiming for to get a title.

            Somewhere between now and then we need to make a significant change to our identity as a team, mainly in our approach to close games late. Part of it is personel but a bigger part is our reliance on the ref's making a call to save us. Ref's swallow their whistles a lot during the playoffs and if we can't figure out how to win games without their help, we are going to struggle. The defense is great and that's a big part of the puzzle, but our crunch time strategy needs a shift.
            "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

            -Churchill

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            • #21
              A.I wrote: View Post
              Yeah I'm not willing to trade Lowry. He is our best player. We need a player who can create his own shot and score 20 points a game consistently. JV will be the second option who can average 18-23 points per game if given the opportunity imo. Just fire Casey and trade DD to move up in the draft or for other players and I'm sure this team will become much better.
              Pretty sure "creating your own shot" has now been labeled "hero ball" and is highly frowned upon around these parts.

              But you basically just described Demar... He can create his own shot, and he gets us 20 points consistently.

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              • #22
                Joey wrote: View Post
                Pretty sure "creating your own shot" has now been labeled "hero ball" and is highly frowned upon around these parts.

                But you basically just described Demar... He can create his own shot, and he gets us 20 points consistently.
                Lol +1
                @Chr1st1anL

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                • #23
                  hateslosing wrote: View Post
                  I disagree with the bolded but I suppose that's because I think Lowry will be good to go for a while yet. He plays hard basketball but he doesn't rely on speed that much to be successful so I'm hopeful he'll be able to maintain a high level of play into his 30's. I think that if he can play at a high level for 3 more seasons that third season is where JV and TRoss will be coming into their own and is where Masai should be aiming for to get a title.

                  Somewhere between now and then we need to make a significant change to our identity as a team, mainly in our approach to close games late. Part of it is personel but a bigger part is our reliance on the ref's making a call to save us. Ref's swallow their whistles a lot during the playoffs and if we can't figure out how to win games without their help, we are going to struggle. The defense is great and that's a big part of the puzzle, but our crunch time strategy needs a shift.
                  Lowry has yet to maintain his best play for an entire season without injury or fatigue breakdown. Not sure why you believe his prime will extend for sure a long stretch of season when he has yet to do it for a full season.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • #24
                    Joey wrote: View Post
                    Pretty sure "creating your own shot" has now been labeled "hero ball" and is highly frowned upon around these parts.

                    But you basically just described Demar... He can create his own shot, and he gets us 20 points consistently.
                    Having a player with the ability to do that helps sometimes. Having two go 4th quarter hero ball constantly doesn't help.

                    Also I don't want Demar gone only because of his hero ball, its partly because of the fact that he can't shoot, is an average defender and needs the ball in his hands to be effective.
                    Last edited by A.I; Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:35 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Joey wrote: View Post
                      Pretty sure "creating your own shot" has now been labeled "hero ball" and is highly frowned upon around these parts.

                      But you basically just described Demar... He can create his own shot, and he gets us 20 points consistently.
                      There's a difference. "Creating your own shot" can be good for the team. "Hero ball", though, is pure selfishness/tunnel vision.
                      "Stop eating your sushi."
                      "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                      "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                      - Jack Armstrong

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                      • #26
                        Lowry is a great player, our best player by a wide margin and possibly a top 10 PG. The problem is that he needs better direction than Casey provides. Casey just feeds his hero-ball tendencies to absurd levels.
                        "Stay steamy"

                        - Kobe

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                        • #27
                          Joey wrote: View Post
                          Pretty sure "creating your own shot" has now been labeled "hero ball" and is highly frowned upon around these parts.

                          But you basically just described Demar... He can create his own shot, and he gets us 20 points consistently.
                          Two different things.

                          Hero ball is looking off players, forcing bad shots, driving into defenses, etc even when other plays are working consistently against the opposing team.

                          Creating your own shot is something that can be used in end of clock situations or game on the line 15 seconds left......not at 8:46 of the second quarter

                          Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk

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                          • #28
                            I've said this before: if you trade Lowry, it is not to get better, but to tank.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • #29
                              Kyle Lowry is awesome and the conversation around this team has officially go...

                              DanH wrote: View Post
                              I've said this before: if you trade Lowry, it is not to get better, but to tank.
                              Not when we have Cory Joseph aka motion aka Tony Parker light ready to step in....

                              I'd rather not trade Lowry right now. Is there a better PG in the east right now??? Serious question....


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                              • #30
                                Lowry's good.

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