Building a contender on a knife's edge?

[Barolt]

I think we need to go all out to get someone to add in now. Try offering Memphis an offer for gasol they can't refuse.
Jv, Ross, Johnson, wright 2016 Knicks/ 2017 raps pick, 2017 clippers pick
For
Gasol
Lee
I like jv, but his prime won't lineup with Lowry, Carroll, demar to an extent. Keeping him makes me think we always stay good, but never good enough at one time to make the leap, if you can pry away gasol, that gives us the best opportunity now to at least make the ecf, then our picks becoming irrelevant.

That is an awful trade. We'd be left with a bench of Patterson, CoJo, Powell, Bennett, Lee. We'd have to depend on 1-2 of the players who haven't played any significant minutes all season. We'd also have no injury insurance for Lowry, and we'd get a LOT older in a hurry while not getting good enough to beat the Cavs.

[yabadabayolo]

3 seasons ago, when DeMar had played the same number of career minutes Ross has now, how much faith did you have that he could 'bring it' for 82 games as a starter?

Considering dd was like 22. And played on a talent starved roster. I had a lot more faith...


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[draps]

That is an awful trade. We'd be left with a bench of Patterson, CoJo, Powell, Bennett, Lee. We'd have to depend on 1-2 of the players who haven't played any significant minutes all season. We'd also have no injury insurance for Lowry, and we'd get a LOT older in a hurry while not getting good enough to beat the Cavs.

The bench would be

Cory
Lee

Pat
Biyombo

9 guys, we won't play more than that in the playoffs anyway

[SkywalkerAC]

What would Ryan Anderson cost?

[Radojevic]

You can't build a contender without elite talent. The Raps don't have that.

You need to draft elite talent. It's hardly ever traded, and when it is, it's traded for other elite talent that someone drafted.

When you draft them, they are controllable. You have them locked up long-term due to Restricted FA. You have them for their prime years. Building through the draft gives you an infinitely better chance at creating a sustainable core with the same peak years.

Raps have Lowry, who is 29.3 years old, and only has 1.5 years left before he becomes an Unrestricted FA who will get the max. Demar will be making the max. They're not elite.

The Raps are so uninteresting. I doubt they'd beat hardly any eastern team in a 7-game first round playoff series.

The Knicks would beat them. Celtics would. Wiz swept them last year. I've watched tons of eastern team and, like always, the Raps would choke.

Boring.

[Uncle_Si]

You can't build a contender without elite talent. The Raps don't have that.

You need to draft elite talent. It's hardly ever traded, and when it is, it's traded for other elite talent that someone drafted.

When you draft them, they are controllable. You have them locked up long-term due to Restricted FA. You have them for their prime years. Building through the draft gives you an infinitely better chance at creating a sustainable core with the same peak years.

Raps have Lowry, who is 29.3 years old, and only has 1.5 years left before he becomes an Unrestricted FA who will get the max. Demar will be making the max. They're not elite.

The Raps are so uninteresting. I doubt they'd beat hardly any eastern team in a 7-game first round playoff series.

The Knicks would beat them. Celtics would. Wiz swept them last year. I've watched tons of eastern team and, like always, the Raps would choke.

Boring.

You should give yourself a wet willy.

[JWash]

Actually a few of the top teams right now have traded for elite talents to help them be as good as they are:

- Love in Cleveland
- Harden in Houston
- CP3 in Los Angeles

Also even when the guys are drafted it doesn't necessarily mean they were tanked for or drafted super-high.

- Curry was 7th overall
- Paul George was 10th overall
- Jimmy Butler was 30th overall
- Kawhi Leonard was 15th overall

[3inthekeon]

WTF is "elite talent"? Top 5 in the NBA? Top 10? Top 20?

Good fucking luck drafting it, because that's exactly what you need.

Top 15 in NBA by RPM Wins:

Westbrook, Curry, Green, Lowry, Leonard, James, Jordan, Millsap, George, Harden, Bosh, Durant, Butler, Love, Paul.

James is the only player in that group drafted #1 overall.

Six in that group weren't even lottery picks, with three drafted in the second round.

[mcHAPPY]

WTF is "elite talent"? Top 5 in the NBA? Top 10? Top 20?

Good fucking luck drafting it, because that's exactly what you need.

Top 15 in NBA by RPM Wins:

Westbrook, Curry, Green, Lowry, Leonard, James, Jordan, Millsap, George, Harden, Bosh, Durant, Butler, Love, Paul.

James is the only player in that group drafted #1 overall.

Six in that group weren't even lottery picks, with three drafted in the second round.

7 were drafted in the top 5.

Yes, you need luck drafting top talent but the degree of luck drastically decreases the higher you're picking in the lottery.


There is no guaranteed method for securing elite NBA talent but the high end of the draft gives the best chance.

[Just Is]

You can't build a contender without elite talent. The Raps don't have that.

You need to draft elite talent. It's hardly ever traded, and when it is, it's traded for other elite talent that someone drafted.

When you draft them, they are controllable. You have them locked up long-term due to Restricted FA. You have them for their prime years. Building through the draft gives you an infinitely better chance at creating a sustainable core with the same peak years.

Raps have Lowry, who is 29.3 years old, and only has 1.5 years left before he becomes an Unrestricted FA who will get the max. Demar will be making the max. They're not elite.

The Raps are so uninteresting. I doubt they'd beat hardly any eastern team in a 7-game first round playoff series.

The Knicks would beat them. Celtics would. Wiz swept them last year. I've watched tons of eastern team and, like always, the Raps would choke.

Boring.

Calling BS on this one.

By literally any metric you use, Lowry's an elite player. The only actual issue is we wear him out.

[DanH]

Calling BS on this one.

By literally any metric you use, Lowry's an elite player. The only actual issue is we wear him out.

And again, I'd like to point out that this is where DD's true value lies. Before this season he had not played well enough while absorbing high usage to be worth keeping around - but if he can play like this season, scoring pretty efficiently, passing, and not settling for bad shots while absorbing that usage that Lowry has shown he cannot handle, he is worth keeping for that reason alone - to allow us to keep and use the elite version of Lowry without burning him out.

Now if only our coach could find some time where Lowry sits on the bench now and again...

[golden]

7 were drafted in the top 5.

Yes, you need luck drafting top talent but the degree of luck drastically decreases the higher you're picking in the lottery.


There is no guaranteed method for securing elite NBA talent but the high end of the draft gives the best chance.

Drastically..... as in having 10 Powerball tickets vs. only 1.

If anything, 3inthekeon's list makes an even stronger case for the importance of player development (vs. drafting high), given how many top 5 picks DON'T make that list. I.E. Bad franchises, coaches, etc..., can even f*ck up elite talent.

[3inthekeon]

What would Ryan Anderson cost?

More than Rudy Gay according to rumour.

[mcHAPPY]

Drastically..... as in having 10 Powerball tickets vs. only 1.

If anything, 3inthekeon's list makes an even stronger case for the importance of player development (vs. drafting high), given how many top 5 picks DON'T make that list. I.E. Bad franchises, coaches, etc..., can even f*ck up elite talent.

On a post a couple of years ago in the great tank debate, I went through the top 5 of the last 10+ years. Can't remember the exact amount.

Regardless, bottom line was a top 5 pick gave about a 40% chance of being an all-star.

That is a bit better odds than a PowerBall ticket....or 10.

[Radojevic]

Calling BS on this one.

By literally any metric you use, Lowry's an elite player. The only actual issue is we wear him out.

He's 29. He'll be a UFA in 1.5 seasons and will get the max. DD will already be making the max.

So we'll re-sign Lowry when he's 31 to a max deal. What's our window? 1 year? Maybe 2? Yay. Meanwhile, teams like Orlando, Boston, Washington, New York, probably Philly, Detroit, etc, will be passing us by because they have a young core of elite talent.

We are stuck in purgatory until we draft a star. Uberstar, superstar, super-duper star, whatever. Porzingis is already a star. Drummond, Smart, Oladipo, Wall, etc. What do we have? Nothing. The Raps have poop and everyone knows it. We are irrelevant.