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Zach lowe did a full on raptors column today- how do they get from "good" to "great"

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  • #61
    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    People forget that Marc Gasol is the best two way Center in the league.
    was

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    • #62
      The guy is 30 years old. Pretty sure he has a lot left in the tank
      @Chr1st1anL

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      • #63
        Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
        The guy is 30 years old. Pretty sure he has a lot left in the tank
        He's 31 and showing clear signs of regression so far this season. Also not only does he log NBA mileage, but also major FIBA mileage in the offseason with the Spanish national team.

        This is one of those moves that I think 2-3 years down the line you look back and say "wtf were we thinking" kind of like trading Roy Hibbert for JO (who was also one of the best 2 way centers in the league at one point) except worse because JV is way better than Hibbert.

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        • #64
          JWash wrote: View Post
          He's 31 and showing clear signs of regression so far this season. Also not only does he log NBA mileage, but also major FIBA mileage in the offseason with the Spanish national team.

          This is one of those moves that I think 2-3 years down the line you look back and say "wtf were we thinking" kind of like trading Roy Hibbert for JO (who was also one of the best 2 way centers in the league at one point) except worse because JV is way better than Hibbert.
          if JV become as good as Gasol is/was last year. Than it looks like a bad deal but, I'm pretty sure Gasol is JV's ceiling. Pau Gasol is 35 and is still highly effective. His having a slow first half off the season. I'm going to give the guy who was just named to the All-NBA 1st team 8 months ago the benefit of the doubt.
          @Chr1st1anL

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          • #65
            Went through the article and had a few thoughts

            Lowe wrote:
            The defense hasn't been as air tight as Casey would like, especially when Jonas Valanciunas is on the floor, but the Raptors feel more like a solidly built house.
            Honestly I see the opposite. The defense JV has given us this year has been really good. His rim protection FG% stats have been wonky and way above the norm, but as someone else mentioned I have seen some of the highest floaters ever drop over him on multiple occasions this year...

            Lowe wrote:
            "How do you get from good in the NBA to great?" Ujiri asked. "That is really hard."
            Talent and coaching...

            Lowe wrote:
            Ross and Carroll certainly aren't ready to absorb DeRozan's possessions in the event Toronto lets him walk.

            But you know who might be? Valanciunas. The big fella goes through entire halves when he doesn't get a single back-to-the-basket touch; he's shooting less via post-ups this season than last season, even though Casey trusts him now in crunch time. He has also taken just 21 shots directly out of the pick-and-roll, about one per game -- an unfathomably low number for a high-volume screen-setter.
            Que all frustrations from the Everything Valanciunas thread

            Lowe wrote:
            Those guards also love to "snake" the pick-and-roll -- hoops lingo for swerving back in the direction of a pick -- and right into Valanciunas' path:
            Funny this was mentioned after I talked about how our guards snake the screen way too much in a game thread, which really limits our ability to use JV on the roll.

            Lowe wrote:
            That sounds crazy, but an informal poll of a dozen front-office executives on Bazemore's next average salary drew answers ranging from the mid-level exception, to $12 million, to "who the hell even knows?"
            Interesting value placement. Bazemore is good two way complimentary role player producing a good amount of wins (0.134 WS/48) on a small usage (19.5%). Seems to be a second tier role player and is going to ring in at about 30-40% of the vet max. As much flak as Ross has gotten I think the two are on a similar level. Ross is a very good shooter and a better defender than given credit for. His numbers don't back it up because of the injury to his hand and his struggles when he returned, but I think he is in that same second tier* role player level... and is in the same price range.

            *Top Tier Role player are the like of Danny Green, contract year Ariza...etc

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            • #66
              Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
              if JV become as good as Gasol is/was last year. Than it looks like a bad deal but, I'm pretty sure Gasol is JV's ceiling. Pau Gasol is 35 and is still highly effective. His having a slow first half off the season. I'm going to give the guy who was just named to the All-NBA 1st team 8 months ago the benefit of the doubt.
              Pau Gasol has never spent most of his NBA career pudgy.

              And who cares about brothers? You think anyone is using blake Griffin as a measuring stick for Taylor's career prospects?

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              • #67
                mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                Pau Gasol has never spent most of his NBA career pudgy.

                And who cares about brothers? You think anyone is using blake Griffin as a measuring stick for Taylor's career prospects?
                I used Pau cause they both have played bigs minutes in the NBA/Fiba. They also play the same low to the ground game.
                @Chr1st1anL

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                • #68
                  Also Lowry was pudgy too. Should we except a huge drop off next year when he turns 30?
                  Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Tue Jan 12, 2016, 10:26 PM.
                  @Chr1st1anL

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                  • #69
                    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                    I used Pau cause they both have played bigs minutes in the NBA/Fiba. They also play the same low to the ground game.
                    I think you used him because you're talking out your bottom and are behind any notion, regardless of how illogical, that involves trading or benching JV.

                    And as good as Marc is, he is Harvey to Pau's Horace.

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                    • #70
                      Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                      Also Lowry was pudgy too. Should we except a huge drop off next year when he turns 30?
                      Lol

                      Lowry didn't drop weight in contract year.

                      Fear the contract year.

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                      • #71
                        mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                        I think you used him because you're talking out your bottom and are behind any notion, regardless of how illogical, that involves trading or benching JV.

                        And as good as Marc is, he is Harvey to Pau's Horace.
                        Aren't you the one whose always talking about being a treadmill team. Well if raptors don't make a trade that's what they are. By Masai committing to the backcourt by choosing to resign DD to the Max or close to it. Leaves us with little cap room. The only way we can get better is by trade and JV is our best assets. There is a reason why JV and Ross' extension add up to around max money.
                        @Chr1st1anL

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                        • #72
                          Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          I used Pau cause they both have played bigs minutes in the NBA/Fiba. They also play the same low to the ground game.

                          You realize Pau actually has dropped off significantly since he was about 30 right? He used to be like a 120 oRTG guy in L.A. and even with the Grizzlies. He's still very good but nowhere near that caliber of player anymore.

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                          • #73
                            Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                            Aren't you the one whose always talking about being a treadmill team. Well if raptors don't make a trade that's what they are. By Masai committing to the backcourt by choosing to resign DD to the Max or close to it. Leaves us with little cap room. The only way we can get better is by trade and JV is our best assets. There is a reason why JV and Ross' extension add up to around max money.
                            You keep saying this but you know it doesn't mean anything right?

                            To trade for a max player anyway you don't need to send back 25M you need to send back 20M. So JV+Ross adding up to ~25M doesn't really mean a thing. Also they don't actually add up to 25M until the offseason, not now.

                            Carroll and Lowry also add up to ~25M are they out the door?

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                            • #74
                              JWash wrote: View Post
                              You realize Pau actually has dropped off significantly since he was about 30 right? He used to be like a 120 oRTG guy in L.A. and even with the Grizzlies. He's still very good but nowhere near that caliber of player anymore.
                              This. He was a lot better when he is younger and in LA. .200+ WS/48 in seasons with the Lakers, higher PER, higher TS%, 120+ ORTG. Really the only thing he has been doing better with the Bulls is rebounding, and even then he is getting more defensive rebounds, his offensive rebounding numbers have decreased.

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                              • #75
                                I honestly think that Masai will stay the status quo till the summer. He will make a big move this summer.
                                @Chr1st1anL

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