what one area or position do the raps need to improve in to beat Cleveland head to head

[octothorp]

Bench consistency would be huge. Benches shorten in the playoffs of course, but we need Ross, Patterson, and Joseph to hit their shots and play solid defensive minutes. If those guys are going, then I seriously believe we can knock off Cleveland with the current roster and everyone healthy.

[Barolt]

I'd say better defense from our starters. Our bench guys pretty much universally have better Drtgs than the equivalent starters.

Our team Drtg is 100.9 on the season, only one starter(Lowry) sits below that mark.

This trend has actually been worse in January, when we have a team Drtg of 103.3, but no starter is below that mark. The closest is JV at 103.6. Conversely, every bench player is below 103.3 in January, with Ross, Joseph and Bis below 100.

That, and stop playing JJ. He's just not good. Second worst Drtg on the team in January, only negative net rating aside from the deep bench guys.

[CB4Champ]

START JAMES JOHNSON AT POWER FORWARD...

GET RID OF COACH CASEY...

JAMES JOHNSON DOES NOT PLAY



JAMES JOHNSON JUST DUNKS ON KLAFFIES


PEOPLES MUST KNOW HE NEEDS TO START AT POWER FORWARD!!!

[iblastoff]

I'd say better defense from our starters. Our bench guys pretty much universally have better Drtgs than the equivalent starters.

Our team Drtg is 100.9 on the season, only one starter(Lowry) sits below that mark.

This trend has actually been worse in January, when we have a team Drtg of 103.3, but no starter is below that mark. The closest is JV at 103.6. Conversely, every bench player is below 103.3 in January, with Ross, Joseph and Bis below 100.

That, and stop playing JJ. He's just not good. Second worst Drtg on the team in January, only negative net rating aside from the deep bench guys.

once again bunch of stats with no context is meaningless. there are barely ANY top defensive teams that have not dropped off in defense since the start of the season based on their average. thats just what generally happens.

spurs are 93.5 Drtg on the season. in january they're 96.9.
golden state 99. in january they're 100.9.
cavs 99.9. in january they're 103.
pacers 99.5. in january 100.2.
heat 100.2. in january 102.2.
bulls 100.4. in january 104.9.
celtics 99.2. in january 103.

the only 2 top 10 defensives teams that didnt drop off were OKC and the hawks. hardly telling of any 'trend' specifically for the raptors defense.

as for starter defense vs bench defense? numerous top defensive teams have similar patterns in january.
majority of celtics starters Drtg look way worse than bench. same with the hawks. same with the cavs. same with the bulls.

overall the numbers are barely that different to constitute any real worry about starter defense.

[Primer]

once again bunch of stats with no context is meaningless. there are barely ANY top defensive teams that have not dropped off in defense since the start of the season based on their average. thats just what generally happens.

spurs are 93.5 Drtg on the season. in january they're 96.9.
golden state 99. in january they're 100.9.
cavs 99.9. in january they're 103.
pacers 99.5. in january 100.2.
heat 100.2. in january 102.2.
bulls 100.4. in january 104.9.
celtics 99.2. in january 103.

the only 2 top 10 defensives teams that didnt drop off were OKC and the hawks. hardly telling of any 'trend' specifically for the raptors defense.

as for starter defense vs bench defense? numerous top defensive teams have similar patterns in january.
majority of celtics starters Drtg look way worse than bench. same with the hawks. same with the cavs. same with the bulls.

overall the numbers are barely that different to constitute any real worry about starter defense.

Yeah, he did a weird analysis there. Bench DRtg is better because bench players play against opposing team bench players, who are worse on offense.

[Demographic Shift]

we wont face the cavs in the playoffs.

So what difference does it make.

do you think the bulls or the hawks bump them off in the 2 vs 3 matchup in the semi's ?

[Primer]

do you think the bulls or the hawks bump them off in the 2 vs 3 matchup in the semi's ?

Or perhaps we get bumped in the 2nd round and don't meet the Cavs in the ECF.

Or we could get bumped in the 1st round by an inferior team because that's what we've done the past two years, he definitely isn't out of line suggesting it. It's probably more likely than not, as our playoff iso game is incredibly easy to stop.

[Barolt]

Yeah, he did a weird analysis there. Bench DRtg is better because bench players play against opposing team bench players, who are worse on offense.

Except... that's not true. Our best Drtg players are bench players, by a significant margin.

The Spurs top 10 players in terms of Drtg are within 3 pts/100 possesions of each other, including several starters.

The Warriors' best Drtgs belong to Curry, Green and Bogut, all starters, with Klay 5th best on the team.

Our starters can get better defensively, and need to.

[Barolt]

By the way, our two most played lineups in January are:

DD/KL/JJ/LS/JV(the current starters): 105.3 Ortg, 103.7 Drtg, 1.6 net rating.

BB/CJ/KL/PP/TR: 107.3 Ortg, 81.3 Drtg, 26.0 net rating.

Interestingly, if you substitute Lowry for DeMar you get...

BB/DD/CJ/PP/TR: 92.4 Ortg, 96.0 Drtg, -3.5 net rating.

[Primer]

Except... that's not true. Our best Drtg players are bench players, by a significant margin.

The Spurs top 10 players in terms of Drtg are within 3 pts/100 possesions of each other, including several starters.

The Warriors' best Drtgs belong to Curry, Green and Bogut, all starters, with Klay 5th best on the team.

Our starters can get better defensively, and need to.

So I'm looking at our DRtg right now, and the only bench guy above the starters is Biyombo. Here are the numbers.

DRtg
Biyombo 100
Lowry 101
Valanciunas 102
Carroll 103
Johnson 104
Scola 104
Patterson 105
Ross 106
Joseph 106
Derozan 106

[Barolt]

So I'm looking at our DRtg right now, and the only bench guy above the starters is Biyombo. Here are the numbers.

DRtg
Biyombo 100
Lowry 101
Valanciunas 102
Carroll 103
Johnson 104
Scola 104
Patterson 105
Ross 106
Joseph 106
Derozan 106

You need to pull Drtg from nba.com, not bref.com. The way it's calculated, Bref.com is more accurate for team statistics, nba.com is more accurate for individual Drtg and Ortg. We covered this in a different thread in the last few days.

[Primer]

You need to pull Drtg from nba.com, not bref.com. The way it's calculated, Bref.com is more accurate for team statistics, nba.com is more accurate for individual Drtg and Ortg. We covered this in a different thread in the last few days.

We also covered how DRtg isn't that great at telling defense, and no stat really is. There is too much going on for a single stat to grab (what lineup is the other team playing, who is matched up against who, what lineup were we playing, etc....). We would need some of that SportVU data to see anything significant, in my opinion.

[iblastoff]

Except... that's not true. Our best Drtg players are bench players, by a significant margin.

The Spurs top 10 players in terms of Drtg are within 3 pts/100 possesions of each other, including several starters.

The Warriors' best Drtgs belong to Curry, Green and Bogut, all starters, with Klay 5th best on the team.

Our starters can get better defensively, and need to.

lol just 2 examples using the BEST TEAMS IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE, with one of them on the path of potentially besting the record of the best team in the entire NBA, and the other with potentially the best sporting coach of all time with a lineup of champions and hall of famers?

what about the numerous examples of almost every other top defensive team that have 'worse' defenders at the starter positions than bench?

you literally have no concept of context, it pains me whenever i see you trying to use stats.

[3inthekeon]

To further Primers point, I posted this a while back, but here it is again

As you can see, component stats like Usage%, Steal%, Turnover%, and Block% are fairly stable year-to-year and are explained far more by the player's previous performance than the role he plays, suggesting that those metrics capture underlying skill in addition to the player's role. At the other end of the spectrum, we see that defensive box-score estimators like Defensive Rating/Def. Win Shares per 48 minutes are heavily influenced by the team and role, which makes sense given that there is a large team component in DRtg.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9776

[Barolt]

lol just 2 examples using the BEST TEAMS IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE, with one of them on the path of potentially besting the record of the best team in the entire NBA, and the other with potentially the best sporting coach of all time with a lineup of champions and hall of famers?

what about the numerous examples of almost every other top defensive team that have 'worse' defenders at the starter positions than bench?

you literally have no concept of context, it pains me whenever i see you trying to use stats.

Do you post around here for any reason other than to reply to my posts with personal insults?

Seriously, I'm trying to bring discussion and answer the question in the thread, every post you've had in this thread has brought little aside from saying I'm an idiot.

If we want to be one of the best teams in the league, we should compare ourselves to the best teams in the league. The question was how do we beat Cleveland in a head to head. I'd say emulating Golden State and San Antonio is a damn good place to start.