Game #52: Toronto Raptors 112 - Minnesota Timberwolves 117

[JWash]

This is Toronto, we can't even tank right. If by some stroke of moronic luck we did fall ass backwards into decent picks we would still be flailing with the modern equivalent of Arujo, Radojevic, and Joey.

We ought to thank the based god Dolan for being mad af when he hears MU is calling.

Ah yeah the Raps always bungle top 10 picks.

Those guys Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Damon Stoudamire, Marcus Camby, Chris Bosh, DeMar DeRozan, Jonas Valanciunas and Terrence Ross have all been busts and had terrible careers.

[Scraptor]

I hate when people try to put ceilings on teams or say that others have unlimited ceilings. Yeah if all or some of Minnesota's prospects reach their full potential they could be freaking amazing. But then I read here how we're done and we're capped out and can't get better. What happens if we select the best or 2nd best prospect in the 2016 draft and Durant says he wants to play here? Are we still capped out then?

Although I agree with your broader point that there is no one guaranteed strategy, I think you are stretching here to make your point. The odds of us getting even a top 3 pick in the 2016 draft are currently 0.5% (1 in 200), since both picks need to be there, not just the Knicks pick.

The odds of us signing KD were at 50/1 to start the season. They might be a little better now, but we're still by no means the favorite.

Being capped out is a situation where your opportunities for meaningful improvement are limited. Hoping for extremely low probability outcomes like the two above isn't a strategy for success. It's dreaming.

Further, I don't think anyone has said we are capped out right now. The argument is that we are on the verge of being capped out, which is why Masai must act now or this off season, otherwise we'll be stuck. It's an argument against standing pat, because the more time that passes, the harder it will be to break free of the drying concrete we've been walking in.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I didn't say that they weren't terribly managed, they obviously were especially from 2009-2013, Kahn made BC look like a savant. Just pointing out that it's not as simple as just getting high draft picks.

The bold has been the crux of the tanking debate around these parts for years; pro-tankers have never thought that was the case.

"Tanking" is an ugly word for a long-term rebuilding process that starts with the unloading of current assets for future assets, which typically happens to kickoff at the upcoming draft (note: start with the first draft after choosing to go that route, not end with that draft, in a MJ/LBJ/savior sort of way).

Plus in all major sports, "tanking" is essentially league-sanctioned every season, when 'bad' teams can sell old/expensive assets to contending teams at the trade deadline.


As for tonight, this is a game where Toronto needs to show that they're developing a next-level killer instinct, by helping Minnesota tank their way to another L. If this game goes the Raptors' way, the 5 young guys should get plenty of court time in the 4th quarter.

[slaw]

There's no definitive strategy that "works" in the NBA.

Roster building is so much more fluid and diverse and it's dumb to say any one strategy is better than another

Lots of industries/projects are fluid and diverse but, within those areas, there are certainly strategies that work better than others. This is so trite I would have thought it was inarguable. While there is no magic formula with respect to drafting, player development, basketball operations, etc., there are certainly techniques, tactics and strategies that work better than others. After all, there are reasons why certain GMs like Donnie Walsh and Jerry West were able to find success in various places while other GMs (Billy King) aren't and why some organizations are typically strong (Spurs) and others are typically weak (Knicks).

So, obviously, there are processes that are objectively better than others. It doesn't mean that a bad process can't produce great results but that just means you got lucky not that your process was good.

For example, I would argue that any process that ignores the draft entirely is prima facie inferior to one that doesn't, especially in a cap league with limited roster spots. I would also argue that any plan that leaves a small margin for error is fundamentally flawed as everyone makes mistakes - arguing that a plan only failed because management made mistakes ignores the fact that every single manager in the history of everything makes mistakes implementing plans and if your plan is that fragile it is likely busted from day one (i.e. see Hinkie, Sam).

[LJ2]

Anyone know a good site to stream Raptors games from? I just recently got rid of cable (screw you Rogers).

[Barolt]

Hehestreams.tk seems to be the best streaming site at the moment. Been working well for me.

[Raptorsnz]

KAT is averaging 21.5 points, 12.5 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 2 blocks on 61% shooting in his last 10 games. He is stupidly good. Let's hope the rookie wall hits him today.

[Demographic Shift]

Hehestreams.tk seems to be the best streaming site at the moment. Been working well for me.

Yeah Hehestreams.tk thats the best one right now.... Rawstreams was also a grade A site but piracy laws being what they are it got shut down pretty quick. Don't be so quick to dump your cable....

[Primer]

Yeah Hehestreams.tk thats the best one right now.... Rawstreams was also a grade A site but piracy laws being what they are it got shut down pretty quick. Don't be so quick to dump your cable....

If hehestreams ever goes down, thefirstrow.eu has been up for years, that link will work as a redirect to whatever the current domain is. Not as crispy HD as rawstreams and hehestreams, but if you try out all the options you'll fine one that is pretty damn good, and oh so free. Cut the cord.

[DanH]

Just go to reddit. NBA streams reddit always has an HD stream or 5.

[Demographic Shift]

Starting Lineups:
TimberPups

PG - Ricky Rubio - a can't shoot PG... tough to overcome that in a league obsessed with 3 Pt Shots. Advtg RAPS

SG - Andrew Wiggins .. a bona fide up and coming all star in the league.... Wiggins has more better nights than poor ones. Still DD and Ross are a more consistent tandem than Andrew and Zach Lavine... Advtg RAPS

SF - Tayshaun Prince... a fossil .. but a smart fossil starting at the 3.. a good learning experience for Norman Powell... Prince will make life tough but Norm is up to it... eventually Prince and Shabbaz will wear down during the game...Advtg RAPS

PF - Kevin Garnett... if Prince is a fossil Garnet a fossil from a different epoch... The trash talk will not affect Scola and PPat will simply run him off his feet.... backing him up ares Payne and Bjelicae.... not exactly inspiring fear eh ?Advtg RAPS

C - Karl-Anthony Towns.... the tandem of JV and BB have been giving fits to more experienced C's (Drummond/Chandler/Gortat/Jordan) only stumbling against Jokic so have to give the edge to them against the likely ROY manning the 5 for the Wolves. Advtg RAPS

Raps win.... but the pup's keep it close. No Bruno sighting tonight.

[Primer]

And if they are a top contender in the West for 5 years because of those two, will that prove the opposite?

Yeah, kinda, with the caveat they got Wiggins by trading Love, not tanking, so it was pretty damn important they had a player on the roster that was worth a #1 overall pick in return.

Anthony Davis is a KAT level talent, yet New Orleans is back to being one of the NBA's worst. A whole lot of luck and everything going as good as possible is what Minnesota needs to be West contenders.

I'm not sold at all on Wiggins becoming an elite player. His defense is bad, his 3pt shooting is terrible, he doesn't rebound very well, doesn't get a lot of assists or steals or blocks. His only stand out trait is getting to the line at a pretty high clip. He scores a lot because of insane usage. He's essentially a lot like early career Demar. Their 2nd seasons are eerily similar, except Wiggins has higher usage.

[planetmars]

Lowry + the Bench go on a huge run and ice this game for us. Advantage RAPS.

[Barolt]

Lowry + the Bench go on a huge run and ice this game for us. Advantage RAPS.

I love that we can depend on this group, I hate that we can depend on needing this group.

[OldSkoolCool]

Minnesota is proof tanking doesn't work. Two #1 overall picks from draft classes everyone agreed were can't miss, yet they fucking suck.

I've been watching a fair bit of TWolves games before Ballstreams got shut down and I am definitely going to say that the state of that team has nothing to do with the performance of the young guys, Wiggins/Towns/Lavine/Dieng/Shabazz

Martin, Rubio, Pekovic, Smitch, and Prince all weigh that team down so much...they all need to go this offseason

Depending on how good of a night CoJo has tonight on defense we will all get a good look at the impact Lavine has on the court....He is an on-ball player who can shoot off the dribble and has amazing court vision (but doesn't make spectacular flashy passes like Rubio, yet is the better passer). Lavine's effectiveness is pretty much zero when Smitch plays him with Rubio and has him off ball, which Smitch does quite a bit...again a coach that favours the vets

Although yes, Lavine still does get bullied defensively