Elephant in the room - Chicago Bulls 1st Round Matchup

[Barolt]

Wow.

You guys are pretty good at letting your own critical stat analysis and doomsday way of thinking just ruin Sports for you. The players on Toronto are fully capable of rising to the occasion. If they don't, its on them, not on a "system", or a "coach". It isn't about any certain players being better so Butler isn't gonna beat Toronto, nor is Gasol.

Its a team game.

And the magic that wins you a ring comes from the stuff you cannot measure. Its a chicken and egg scenario....what comes first the stat of the act???

Success comes from pushing yourself to a new level. In team sport, its even harder because there has to be a collection of unique entities that can do this all at once. To make it happen the need dedication, greater focus, a new level of physical commitment, talent, a lot of luck, and a fortunate run of health.

If you wanna sit there and pontificate about all of these things using advanced stats, have at it. If you wanna count um out already, go ahead, its your call but I have no idea why the fuck you even follow the team if thats the case. If you wanna begin, 20 games before the playoffs even arrive, finding excuses... of its the coach, the system, this guy chucks, this guys i a ball stopper. blah blah blah..... you can do that too.

me. I'm gonna just keep enjoying the games. Bitching after um if they lose, cheering if they win. When the playoffs do arrive, because I know what a team needs to do to win it all, I'm gonna enjoy the shit out of seeing what the current group of guys on my fav team can whip up. see if they can find that super elusive alchemy and create gold from thin air.

Most of what is said on message boards is irrelevant. fun I guess, but irrelevant. What happens on the floor is what matters, and that can change in an instant. A giant can fall, and a nobody can take it all. Thats why i even bother.

If you believe that, then why waste your team reading or writing it?

I enjoy the discussions, and find the statistics interesting. Personally, looking at the details behind what I see in the games makes the viewing experience more enjoyable, not less so.

[Mess]

Personally, looking at the details behind what I see in the games makes the viewing experience more enjoyable, not less so.

There was a time where it made it a lot less enjoyable for me. I was spending too much time around here, got too deep, took it too seriously, that I ended up being way too critical of what I was watching. Clearly the Raptors don't always play flawless basketball and while the hope is there, expecting to see perfection on every possession and only seeing the mistakes puts a damper on the experience.

[DanH]

There was a time where it made it a lot less enjoyable for me. I was spending too much time around here, got too deep, took it too seriously, that I ended up being way too critical of what I was watching. Clearly the Raptors don't always play flawless basketball and while the hope is there, expecting to see perfection on every possession and only seeing the mistakes puts a damper on the experience.

Huh. To each their own I guess. I for one have probably been more critical of the rotations this year than any other (except maybe 2013-14, wherein Salmons was so obviously a problem that it physically hurt), and have enjoyed watching the games the most.

Everyone's different that way, I guess. Certainly IF it detracts from one's experience then forum interaction and stats perusal/analysis should be cut down. But I don't think that's true of everyone.

[JWash]

You can't totally dismiss stats. They have use and are very important for studying the game.

However on forums I see people regularly abusing stats. Trying to use them to explain even the most minute of details in the game often times based on minuscule sample sizes. There are so many things that cannot be measured by stats that go into a basketball game like heart, desire, chemistry and poise. And even beyond that, there are things about the game, especially individual games that are extremely random and hard to predict, especially when it comes to a playoff series.

Stats are really great for certain things for example measuring how efficient a player is, what lineups work best, etc. But at the end of the day even those things have to be put into context or you risk looking very foolish basing your entire evaluation off of them. The game is still played on the court.

Quite frankly an example of this is DeRozan. Looking at his stats from year 2 to 6, there was basically no indication he was going to become this level of player. Basically the same thing every year, slight uptick in his first all-star year because he got better at passing and more long-twos were falling, but that's about it. But there's the other things you have to pay attention to. He was working on his handle in order to make it easier for him to get to the basket. He was working on his decision making. He was working on his outside shot. However there was basically no way to measure that through stats, so people were willing to throw him away for a mid-late 1st in the offseason. How dumb would that look now?

Stats are useful. They're not the end-all be-all though.

[Demographic Shift]

Well after last night the elephant is wounded and limping. Gasol is out for a "few games" according to coach Freddy. Taj Gibson is nicked up and his hamstring is tight and he is day to day. Butler is playing through a sore knee and hasn't recaptured his form yet from watching last nights pasting at the hands of the Whiz. Rose is still on his few games on the floor and few games on the bench regimen.

Going to be tough for the Bulls to overtake Indy or Charlotte. If they get in.. they get into 8th slot. But the Whiz who I though were dead have a chance to get in if the Bulls continue to flounder and Stans boys will have to win a few they have been letting slip through their fingers lately...

The cold hard math says .. with 16 games to go.. If both Indy and Charlotte go 9W and 6L... The Bulls will have to go 12W and 4L to tie Indy for 8th. Pretty tall order for the M*A*S*H unit that the Bulls look like right now.

Remaining Games
Wins Losses Teams Wins Losses Total

9 6 Charlotte 47 35 82

9 6 Indy 45 37 82

12 4 Bulls 45 37 82

[psrs1]

They're not going to make the playoffs, so they should whip out a handkerchief and clean that saliva up.

Respectfully disagree. Bulls have sift upcoming schedule.

[Jclaw]

I'd say we're on DEFCON 4 right about now. It's a combination of the Bulls just being a half game behind Indy and we're only 1 behind the Cavs. Who has the tie breaker for Indy/Chi? It's a roll of the dice now and one of the six sides is definitely Raps v Bulls. It could get to DEFCON 1 pretty quick.

[JWash]

It's destiny at this point. Work all year for the highest seed possible, get the toughest matchup. Forget what I said about them not making the playoffs.

But the past two years we wanted the Nets and wanted the Wizards and got gobsmacked. Maybe the fact that we've gotten beaten by this team in the regular season will be a good thing. And also Hoiberg is the worst coach in the eastern conference (among the playoff teams).

[Jclaw]

I agree with the above. Interesting game on March 29...Chi v Indy. Chi currently leads 2-1 based on a one point win and an overtime win. Interesting game, not pivotal game. If the Raps and Cavs play cat and mouse til the end of the season, first place (and facing the Bulls or not) may come down to a bunch of bench players. The only hope is for Indy and Detroit to somehow stay ahead of the Bulls.

[GLF]

Yea like JWash said I think it's destiny at this point. I don't see Detroit surpassing Chicago and at the end of the day Chicago even without Pau is the better team between them and Indiana so I can see them moving to 7th and facing us. Who has the easier schedule between the 2? Indiana or Chicago?

[planetmars]

Yea like JWash said I think it's destiny at this point. I don't see Detroit surpassing Chicago and at the end of the day Chicago even without Pau is the better team between them and Indiana so I can see them moving to 7th and facing us. Who has the easier schedule between the 2? Indiana or Chicago?

I believe Indiana has the easier schedule. NBA.com/stats shows that Indiana has an SOS of 0.373, where as Chicago's is 0.488.

[GLF]

I believe Indiana has the easier schedule. NBA.com/stats shows that Indiana has an SOS of 0.373, where as Chicago's is 0.488.

Oh okay well that's good. But the thing is Chicago can beat teams that are higher than them in the standings because to me they are better than the 8th seed. The only reason they're 8th is because of injuries in my eyes. We shall see how it goes down. But at the end of the day we can't control what happens so we might as well stop worrying about it and just focus on our team

[Jclaw]

BTW...let's not be paranoid and think this is just a Raptors fear. By the time the playoffs come, sure Noah won't be there but there may be a fully rested Rose, Butler, Gasol core with a bench that's been solidified in their absence. The Cavs don't want to face them in the first round either. It should be interesting to watch the games within the games to see who finishes in the bracket against the Bulls. They may be just a seed apart but a healthy Bulls team is leaps ahead of either 6 or 7 seed above them.

[Demographic Shift]

BTW...let's not be paranoid and think this is just a Raptors fear. By the time the playoffs come, sure Noah won't be there but there may be a fully rested Rose, Butler, Gasol core with a bench that's been solidified in their absence. The Cavs don't want to face them in the first round either. It should be interesting to watch the games within the games to see who finishes in the bracket against the Bulls. They may be just a seed apart but a healthy Bulls team is leaps ahead of either 6 or 7 seed above them.

Seeing the Bulls flame out is good for a couple of reasons...

The first for me is that the grinning jackass that is Chris Broussard is going to have to recant a lot of his bullshit about the Bulls being a super team in the east.... when they don't make the playoffs....

The second is that it thins the herd so to speak of teams that our guys have to beat. You have to beat them all but not having to go through Chicago is better than not..... and its not a Toronto thing.... Cleveland doesn't like the propect of seeing the Heat or the Bulls either....

Right now cheering for Stans guys down the 401 to pull it together and go on a run that puts the both the Bulls and Whiz with their noses pressed up against the glass on the outside looking in...

[Jclaw]

Chicago's next two games are both against the Knicks. Good for the draft pick, not good for the elephant in the room.