A very very very very Familiar face showed up again in Sixerland.....

[ogi]

I agree with some points, but disagree with others.

I had no issue with the decision for Philly to tank/rebuild. I thought it was a good decision for them, given the state of their team and the likelihood of them being competitive in the short-term.

Hinkie definitely dropped the ball for two reason, to expand on what I listed above:

1. He didn't factor in the human component. What will heavy losing do for the morale of the players he intends to keep to build around (ie: Noel, Okafor, etc...), the perception about the franchise of free agents he hopes to lure with all the cap space, and the fans? Where was the veteran leadership and mentoring, which is critical for all teams in the league to integrate young players, let alone on a team that was destined to suffer lots of losses?

2. He didn't manage the rebuild well, mainly because he wasn't a good talent/asset evaluator, whether we're talking about drafting or trading. He was effective in tearing down the team, but he was clearly in over his head when it came to building it back up.


The one part I disagree with is the first part, at least where you seem to infer that a tank/rebuild strategy somehow has more potential pitfalls than any other strategy (maybe I'm reading more into it than you intended). I agree that every strategy has the potential to blow up in your face, whether it's to compete, improve, retool, rebuild, tank, organic growth, signing free agents, etc... I don't think there's anything wrong with the strategy implemented, but rather the execution and management of that strategy (see my 2 points above).

I think a hard tank like this one that lasts more than a year or two has a lot more potential to blow up in your face rather than maybe any other strategy. I'm sure Hinkie didn't plan on being this bad for 3 full seasons, but in the grand scheme of things 3 seasons isn't even that long of a time. However even last year the perception of Philly the eyes of everyone in the NBA was negative enough for Porzingis' camp to try their absolute best to avoid any contact with the organisation. Porzingis sent them a pretty clear message that he absolutely does not want to play for them and when you have guys that have yet to step foot into the NBA avoiding your organisation, you have a big problem.

That's only one example but there's plenty more. The business side turns into a catastrophe, your roster is most likely affected by all the losing, you lose the ability to attract notable free agents, guys that you trade for probably don't even wanna be there so they end up playing just to get their numbers up and get the hell out of there.

When tanking goes wrong it can really do a number on all aspects of your organisation.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I think a hard tank like this one that lasts more than a year or two has a lot more potential to blow up in your face rather than maybe any other strategy. I'm sure Hinkie didn't plan on being this bad for 3 full seasons, but in the grand scheme of things 3 seasons isn't even that long of a time. However even last year the perception of Philly the eyes of everyone in the NBA was negative enough for Porzingis' camp to try their absolute best to avoid any contact with the organisation. Porzingis sent them a pretty clear message that he absolutely does not want to play for them and when you have guys that have yet to step foot into the NBA avoiding your organisation, you have a big problem.

That's only one example but there's plenty more. The business side turns into a catastrophe, your roster is most likely affected by all the losing, you lose the ability to attract notable free agents, guys that you trade for probably don't even wanna be there so they end up playing just to get their numbers up and get the hell out of there.

When tanking goes wrong it can really do a number on all aspects of your organisation.

It started with the Noel pick, when it was clear that he was going to miss a season. However, I think it was a good pick and expect Noel to have a solid career, plus it gave them a free pass to tank the next season. Embiid was a bad pick. Saric was a good pick, though he too was known to be unavailable for a couple seasons. Okafor was a good pick. Some of the trades were iffy at best.

I think a 3-year rebuilding plan would be perfectly acceptable. I just don't think Hinkie managed/executed the plan very well.

BC is going to be the beneficiary, coming on the scene with tons of options and assets at his disposal, with nowhere for the franchise to go but up.

[Nilanka]

BC is going to be the beneficiary, coming on the scene with tons of options and assets at his disposal, with nowhere for the franchise to go but up.

Yup, the bar has been set so low, that it doesn't really matter what Colangelo does. It will be an improvement by default.

[S.R.]

Yup, the bar has been set so low, that it doesn't really matter what Colangelo does. It will be an improvement by default.

BC has a mixed record, for sure. Philadelphia almost literally can't get any worse, even adding some middling experienced talent would improve that team by 10-15 wins in the first season. BC has always loved a good off-season overhaul.

I think BC was always hamstrung in Toronto by the basic problem of having to win-now around Chris Bosh. So many moves seemed like short-term fixes and were limited by whatever talent was available at the time. I mean they had the #1 pick in a shitty draft and cap space in a summer where the premier FA was Hedo Turkoglu. Many other years and he could have had much, much better players just in those two situations, but there was always a bit of "do something now!" pressure because it was a playoff team and the clock was ticking with Bosh. Don't want to lose your star player! Masai's patience and long-term vision are quite different.

[Axel]

With all the young talent/assets that the 76ers have at their disposal, BC could wind up making himself look like a genius again, at least in the short/mid-term.

If I was Philly's GM, I'd look to unload Embiid, preferring to keep Noel & Okafor (with Saric coming over soon too). Even if you don't get ideal value back, he's just too much of an injury risk and bust concern.

Any potential GM must be salivating at the thought of potentially having 2 top-5 draft picks (their own and LAL @ #4+), and another 2 picks later in the 1st round (Miami & OKC).

Step one, call Boston and see what the offers are for each of Okafor, Embiid, Noel.

Step two, call Sac and see what the asking price for Cousins would be.

Step 3, combine previous steps to rebuild team using Cousins, left over of above trio, plus return from Celtics (Nets pick this year, young back court player and future pick) to pair with Saric and in-coming rookies.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

BC has a mixed record, for sure. Philadelphia almost literally can't get any worse, even adding some middling experienced talent would improve that team by 10-15 wins in the first season. BC has always loved a good off-season overhaul.

I think BC was always hamstrung in Toronto by the basic problem of having to win-now around Chris Bosh. So many moves seemed like short-term fixes and were limited by whatever talent was available at the time. I mean they had the #1 pick in a shitty draft and cap space in a summer where the premier FA was Hedo Turkoglu. Many other years and he could have had much, much better players just in those two situations, but there was always a bit of "do something now!" pressure because it was a playoff team and the clock was ticking with Bosh. Don't want to lose your star player! Masai's patience and long-term vision are quite different.

Agreed.

I also felt that BC had a long-term plan, but MLSE had a desire to compete in the present, which is at least partly to blame for his inability to stick to his plan. Or maybe he was just impatient, or feared for his job, etc...

[ogi]

Step one, call Boston and see what the offers are for each of Okafor, Embiid, Noel.

Step two, call Sac and see what the asking price for Cousins would be.

Step 3, combine previous steps to rebuild team using Cousins, left over of above trio, plus return from Celtics (Nets pick this year, young back court player and future pick) to pair with Saric and in-coming rookies.

I'm sure Cousins is just salivating at the thought of playing for another bottom rung team

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Step one, call Boston and see what the offers are for each of Okafor, Embiid, Noel.

Step two, call Sac and see what the asking price for Cousins would be.

Step 3, combine previous steps to rebuild team using Cousins, left over of above trio, plus return from Celtics (Nets pick this year, young back court player and future pick) to pair with Saric and in-coming rookies.

That seems like a BC-esque move. I'd rather build around Okafor and Noel, preferring to keep a longer-term outlook for the team. I really don't think Cousins would be happy in Philly, which spells disaster.

[Nilanka]

Step one, call Boston and see what the offers are for each of Okafor, Embiid, Noel.

Step two, call Sac and see what the asking price for Cousins would be.

Step 3, combine previous steps to rebuild team using Cousins, left over of above trio, plus return from Celtics (Nets pick this year, young back court player and future pick) to pair with Saric and in-coming rookies.

Cousins, on his 1st day reporting to Philly, would very likely murder someone.

[ogi]

Agreed.

I also felt that BC had a long-term plan, but MLSE had a desire to compete in the present, which is at least partly to blame for his inability to stick to his plan. Or maybe he was just impatient, or feared for his job, etc...

I get the feeling that plan involved bargnani though

[ogi]

It started with the Noel pick, when it was clear that he was going to miss a season. However, I think it was a good pick and expect Noel to have a solid career, plus it gave them a free pass to tank the next season. Embiid was a bad pick. Saric was a good pick, though he too was known to be unavailable for a couple seasons. Okafor was a good pick. Some of the trades were iffy at best.

I think a 3-year rebuilding plan would be perfectly acceptable. I just don't think Hinkie managed/executed the plan very well.

BC is going to be the beneficiary, coming on the scene with tons of options and assets at his disposal, with nowhere for the franchise to go but up.

I completely agree, I'm just saying that the downside of tanking can be pretty terrible.

[Axel]

I'm sure Cousins is just salivating at the thought of playing for another bottom rung team

He doesn't have a no trade clause, so he can't stop it from happening. He's also likely to be happy about leaving Sac and Philly suddenly has new life with the Colangelo's (more so Jerry) in charge.

[Axel]

That seems like a BC-esque move. I'd rather build around Okafor and Noel, preferring to keep a longer-term outlook for the team. I really don't think Cousins would be happy in Philly, which spells disaster.

I'm not a big Okafor fan. Ideally, I'd want to keep Noel and pair him with a Cousins type big. Noel is a good passer, but needs a big who can help stretch the floor and Okafor is certainly not that (traditional low post scorer).

I think Cousins rep gets a bit over-blown. Can anyone say that they wouldn't be unhappy playing for the Kings and all their dysfunction? 76ers have been bad, but by design and are now looking to turn it around with a boat load of assets. They are in a much better position than Sac imo.

[Mess]

At the very least Philly has had a coach in place who is attempting to institute a style, culture there....just an impossible task with so little talent and experience. If I was a free agent who didn't care about the location, I'd rather be in Philly than LA.

I would have taken the risk with Embiid too. But having said that, Noel at the 5 and Aaron Gordon at the 4 is a pretty nice combo.


And Cousings has had that rep before he was drafted. He ended up in probably the worst place for him but it's not like SacTown changed him...at best they stunted his progress, but we'll never know until he's gone.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I get the feeling that plan involved bargnani though

2006 was a tough draft, but most felt that Bargnani was a legit option for #1 overall. It sucked for Toronto because LMA seemed like the BPA, but they had Bosh @ PF. Three wings were also highly touted - Gay, Roy and Foye (I wanted Gay or Roy because the NBA was becoming a wing/guard league).

The problem was that the plan continued to include Bargnani, well after his expiry date. I was a big supporter of Bargnani, but even I bailed long before BC did.