The 2016 Offseason thread

[Lupe]

Do this writers really think Horford is better than Lowry?

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Yeah it's kind of ridiculous. There's no objective measure that would indicate that Horford is better than Lowry, Kyle just dwarfs him in every way except physical stature lol. Kyle to me is tied for the 3rd best player in the East with LeBron and George being #1/2 and Kyrie/Kyle being a wash imo. You could even make the argument that DeRozan is also better than Horford, but I'm not going to go there right now.

[JamesNaismith]

Yeah it's kind of ridiculous. There's no objective measure that would indicate that Horford is better than Lowry, Kyle just dwarfs him in every way except physical stature lol. Kyle to me is tied for the 3rd best player in the East with LeBron and George being #1/2 and Kyrie/Kyle being a wash imo. You could even make the argument that DeRozan is also better than Horford, but I'm not going to go there right now.

I may be called a homer for this but I genuinely believe Kyle is better overall than Kyrie and his effect shows on the basketball team. Kyrie is a phenominal (if not the best) ball handler and a great shooter but he is absolute tunnel vision and doesn't really make the guys around him better as evidenced by how awful CLE was before LBJ came home and imo made Kyrie look great because he knows how to use him. Kyle on the otherhand is THE guy that makes the team go, as Lowry goes so do the Raptors, lose LBJ and Kyrie ain't doing a damn thing for the Cavs. Him and Love are supposedly better than Kyle and DeMar but I would bet anything that the Raps would have a better record than the Cavs without LeBron.

As an individual "talent" Kyle can't compare but as a team leader Kyrie can't imo and I rather have a guy that gets me wins than stuffs the stat sheet but doesn't effect the win column. A guy like Kyle excels in the driver's seat, a guy like Kyrie shines brilliantly as a complimentary piece. Which as an aside I think would be the same case for Cousins. Like Kyrie, he is a great individual talent but what he does doesn't really effect a team's wins and losses UNTIL they are paired with a better leader and used properly.

[KeonClark]

Yeah it's kind of ridiculous. There's no objective measure that would indicate that Horford is better than Lowry, Kyle just dwarfs him in every way except physical stature lol. Kyle to me is tied for the 3rd best player in the East with LeBron and George being #1/2 and Kyrie/Kyle being a wash imo. You could even make the argument that DeRozan is also better than Horford, but I'm not going to go there right now.

Agreed except I'd say

Lebron





George
Lowry

Kyrie

Kyrie is basically a scoring and dribbling machine. Don't get me wrong he does both of those better than almost anyone on the planet, but kyle also does those at 80% of kyries ability while actually playing defense, plus some of the highest bbiq in the league, loose ball hawk, vocal leader, rebounder, you name a facet of basketball that involves effort or smarts and he's got kyrie lapped.

Bugs me how he's(kyrie) anointed the best pg in the east bla bla and lowry is 2nd fiddle with us media

Lastly, imagine for a second our starting lineups where it's

Lowry jr smith james love thompson
Vs
Irving derozan carroll patterson jv

Does anyone think we're better? Does anyone think those cavs are unstoppable?

[JamesNaismith]

Agreed except I'd say

Lebron





George
Lowry

Kyrie

Kyrie is basically a scoring and dribbling machine. Don't get me wrong he does both of those better than almost anyone on the planet, but kyle also does those at 80% of kyries ability while actually playing defense, plus some of the highest bbiq in the league, loose ball hawk, vocal leader, rebounder, you name a facet of basketball that involves effort or smarts and he's got kyrie lapped.

Bugs me how he's(kyrie) anointed the best pg in the east bla bla and lowry is 2nd fiddle with us media

Lastly, imagine for a second our starting lineups where it's

Lowry jr smith james love thompson
Vs
Irving derozan carroll patterson jv

Does anyone think we're better? Does anyone think those cavs are unstoppable?

Exactly the point I was just making...our team with Kyrie wouldn't even come close to 1. being 2nd place in the conference 2. make the ECF.

Kyrie talent >>> Kyle's
Kyle overall >>>>> Kyrie

Some guys are great talents, others are great leaders ie/ Melo never got out of the 1st round and DEN was never better than when Billups was in control of the team and don't say it was because Melo finally had a 2nd star because Chauncey replaced Iverson.

[Cody73]

22 out of 28 votes for Boston. SMH, ESPN. When we win the division & the season series against Boston, will we finally get respect?

[golden]

This thread made it 300 pages, but alas, the off-season is over. Yee-haw.

[Mindlessness]

Agreed except I'd say

Lebron





George
Lowry

Kyrie

Kyrie is basically a scoring and dribbling machine. Don't get me wrong he does both of those better than almost anyone on the planet, but kyle also does those at 80% of kyries ability while actually playing defense, plus some of the highest bbiq in the league, loose ball hawk, vocal leader, rebounder, you name a facet of basketball that involves effort or smarts and he's got kyrie lapped.

Bugs me how he's(kyrie) anointed the best pg in the east bla bla and lowry is 2nd fiddle with us media

Lastly, imagine for a second our starting lineups where it's

Lowry jr smith james love thompson
Vs
Irving derozan carroll patterson jv

Does anyone think we're better? Does anyone think those cavs are unstoppable?

That Cavs team would not have been considered an underdog last season against the warriors. Lowry's defence and playmaking would help LeBron not have to go ultra super god mode in those last few Finals games cause there'd be a good chance they're not in a 3-1 hole in the first place.

[Lupe]

If you swapped Lowry for Irving both teams would get worse.

[white men can't jump]

If you swapped Lowry for Irving both teams would get worse.

Dont think that's true. We for sure get worse, not convinced Cleveland wouldn't get better with Lowry.

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[DanH]

If you swapped Lowry for Irving both teams would get worse.

What? Lowry would be a monster working off ball beside LeBron. Kyrie and Bron step on each other's feet.

[Lupe]

What? Lowry would be a monster working off ball beside LeBron. Kyrie and Bron step on each other's feet.

I agree with the first statement, not the second, at all.

[KeonClark]

I agree with the first statement, not the second, at all.

Kyle and Lebron are similar in that they can play with anyone.

Demar and Kyrie are similar in that they need to be the Robin to a Kyle or a Lebron's Batman to play for a winning team.

[DogeLover1234]

TBH I don't think that the media thinks Kyrie is better than Klow, check who they said was All-NBA. Kyrie has more flashy plays which probably get him more talk but when it comes down to impact on a basketball game most basketball people agree Kyle is better.

[Sinbad]

Kyle and Lebron are similar in that they can play with anyone.

Demar and Kyrie are similar in that they need to be the Robin to a Kyle or a Lebron's Batman to play for a winning team.

This. Both Kyrie and DeMar are natural scorers, best utilized as secondary-options. If you're asking either of them to lead on their own, elevate their teammates, or make things easier for others, they will struggle. We've seen what the Cavs are like without LeBron with Kyrie leading the charge, just like we've seen what the Raptors were like before Lowry took off. Granted, both Kyrie and DeMar have improved since then, but take away the cushion of having LeBron and Lowry, and neither franchise would be in good shape.

[JamesNaismith]

TBH I don't think that the media thinks Kyrie is better than Klow, check who they said was All-NBA. Kyrie has more flashy plays which probably get him more talk but when it comes down to impact on a basketball game most basketball people agree Kyle is better.

I'm not sure tbh.

I don't actually remember Kyle getting that praise ever from American media. Everytime I've listened to them they seem to make it out like Kyrie is the better player but doesn't get the nod in a ASG etc because LBJ is the defacto leader in CLE and Kyle is the leader here because he has no LBJ which is obviously true. As if the only reason Lowry gets the nod as the starte is he is the leader on the 2nd best team in the East and you "can't fault" Kyrie for not being it with LBJ there. So Kyle gets "credit" as the leader but nonetheless, most times I see Lowry's status downplayed in American media time and time again.

I know not the greatest example but I even remember Stephen A Smith on an Open Gym making as if the Raptors have no chance because (and I'm paraphrasing) "not only do the Cavs have LeBron James but they have Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love, they are just bigger and BETTER everywhere"...as if not only does the true MVP make them better but insinuating Love and Irving are better than DD and Lowry...

Which is kinda funny to me because it puts in perspective imo how much we overrate others and sometimes underrate our own. DD and Lowry can be a pain in the ass many times but swap them for Kyrie and Love and I give us absolutely NO CHANCE at all of being 2nd in the East (not even sure we make the Playoffs, seriously) and I said it in the other thread I have no idea where the Cavs would rank without LBJ but I would put money on them NOT cracking the top 4 and I really have no idea if they would border on being a lottery team. I think CLE or our team with Kyrie and Love would rank 6th or worse. The league really needs to start putting more respek on DD and Lowry's names...

But interesting topic...as to what others are saying about scorers like Kyrie and DD, that have no effect without a leader on the court like LBJ and Lowry another prime example was Billups and Melo.

Melo never got out of the 1st rd and DEN never had the success they did until Chauncey arrived. Certain players usually scorers NEED that leader to make them great, I think DMC would also go up a notch in the eyes of many if he had a leader and wasn't being asked to be one when he just isn't. People make the poor assumption that the most talented should always be a leader.