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  • Apollo wrote: View Post
    Your argument about his weight and the impact on his value is invalid. He's always been like this and his resume is based on him playing at that weight. Your argument might be valid if he suddenly put the weight on after this season and his whole resume was based on him playing at 220-240 but that's not the case. We know what he can give and nothing has changed to put that assumption in jeopardy.

    As for his style fitting. They just drafted a center 9th overall and another big 27th overall. What makes you so certain nothings gonna change? One could argue that the reason the Raptors made the finals was sue to the edge they had inside over the Pacers and Heat. That was what turned the tide and not all those games where Casey let the other team dictate his lineup and rotation.
    How is it invalid? WTF does that mean? You think it hasn't impacted his game thus far? You're losing your mind then. It's been directly responsible for him being a slow footed PF defensively, and he's not tall enough to play C. His weight is almost the single biggest factor in him being a difficult player to fit. It's why Boston has been going after mobile bigs since they got him, like Zeller and Amir. He's slow and a liability, and his weight doesn't really help him accomplish anything. If he thinks he needs it to keep bullying people in the post/on the glass, than he doesn't realize he wouldn't lose strength if he leaned down properly.

    And yeah, I don't expect big changes in our offence, and we already have to incorporate JV more. Means Sullinger basically can't fit with our starters on either end, and only really fits as a bench big who takes post duties when JV is off the court. That's not a bad role, but I wouldn't spend that much to see if he fits like that, especially since he'll be a terrible fit defensively with basically any group we throw out there.

    And btw, I've been championing playing inside more for years. However you can't lose perspective. You don't need to add a guy like Sully to be able to do that. We did it fine in the playoffs last year, and in fact many of our best units had 4-out lineups with shooters/wings around JV or Biz. Why? Because if you want to execute well in the halfcourt and utilize the interior, you need the threat of shooters to pull defenders away from the post and make them hesitate on their doubles, not to mention having more athletic players who can read the doubles and decide when it's good to cut. Sullinger can't provide any of that. That helps increase the efficiency of your slow-it-down, pound them inside (even the way guys like DeMar and Lowry attack the rim) offence by giving guys space to get into the paint, and the time to react properly to the way the D shifts. Sullinger can occasionally get hot from outside, but mostly teams will not care about him being planted there, and the shooters in our starting unit aren't good enough to run him and JV on opposite blocks...they won't have any space to make moves and the D will be able to shrink passing lanes to cutters by protecting the paint and not worry about shooters that much.

    Oh, and the guys we drafted are what? Both very athletic open court players who can defend in space and play at/above the rim. They are both lean, fast and strong. They are the antithesis of what Sully is physically as big men. It cements my thoughts that with JV regaining a bit more speed as he leans down, they want their bigs to be able to keep up with the faster game...doesn't mean we won't still play slower, but just that we want to be less exposed than we would having slower bigs. Meaning you can stay big when the other team goes "small" to speed up the game and you'll be able to keep winning the battle inside while they won't be able to effectively shift the pace in their favour if your bigs can get up and down the floor well enough (which Sully can't).

    Again, if Sully would be cool with a more limited bench role basically replacing JV offensively, I guess that's an ok stopgap....but honestly the way Sully plays, it wouldn't be all that different from having Scola in there defensively (especially early season Scola when he was still rebounding well enough) while not actually being that big an improvement offensively (Sully is horribly inefficient despite his toolkit).

    And all this doesn't even get into durability concerns where again, his weight adds extra concern.

    Rant over.

    Comment


    • I'd offer Sully a 1 year contract with the 5 million we have in cap space. He's prob the most skilled big left in the open market and he may be motivated on a 1 year contract looking for a big paycheck next off season.

      Comment


      • Wouldn't mind this pick up. Started on a good defensive team and productive in his 4 years in Boston

        Scouting report

        + Hefty stretch 4 with serious health questions

        + Skilled passer and rebounder despite being floor-bound

        + Solid one-on-one defender but struggles in pick-and-roll


        Analysis

        The Celtics have gotten great production out of their 2012 late-first-round pick, considering all the concerns that back issues would limit Sullinger's impact. Granted, he's missed over 20 games in two of his three seasons in the NBA, but he's a very productive big man who can stretch out and hit a 3 every once in a while.


        Sullinger's gotten carried away with the triples, though. He shot 28.3 percent from downtown last season, which certainly doesn't justify taking 184 attempts from deep. He's a great midrange shooter, but it hasn't translated to success beyond the arc. Despite his perimeter profuseness, he gets into the paint like a bulldozer and pulls down offensive boards at a high rate.


        Defensively, Sullinger is a strong on-ball defender but doesn't move laterally enough to snuff out pick-and-rolls with ease. He checks in as a below-average defender, but his offensive skills make him a solid starter if he can stay healthy. If he loses weight and sharpens his jumper, he can have a future as a Ryan Anderson lite.
        @Chr1st1anL

        Comment


        • Yeah I see Sullinger as a low risk high reward move, a bit like Bennett last summer, except Sullinger is better.

          His per 36 stats are pretty good, too.

          Comment


          • JJ to Miami, 1/$4 mil.
            twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

            Comment


            • Stein reporting JJ is off to Miami. One year, $4m.

              I don't think Masai was gonna mid-level him, so good for JJ.

              Comment


              • Happy for JJ, he can actually get some playing time there...he's a lot better than Casey or a lot of fans gave him credit for...definitely not some 11-15th man bench scrub...maybe not starter worthy but solid rotation player. he should have a good bounce back season there.

                Comment


                • charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                  Yeah I see Sullinger as a low risk high reward move, a bit like Bennett last summer, except Sullinger is better.

                  His per 36 stats are pretty good, too.
                  Plus he has above average metrics for what it's worth.

                  Comment


                  • magoon wrote: View Post
                    Stein reporting JJ is off to Miami. One. year, $4m.

                    I don't think Masai was gonna mid-level him, so good for JJ.
                    Well he better mid level Thompson, we need insurance at the 4.

                    Comment


                    • rightsideup wrote: View Post
                      Fit issues as in not much range away from the basket?
                      Yeah, he plays best at center. He's a little small for post D against some bigs. His foot speed is awesome on the perimeter but it reduces his rim protection. Offensively he can't play 4. Limited range, poor hands. He's 22 so he can still develop. He's gonna get paid so he would be an expensive backup. If he learns to shoot tho it's like next gen ibaka.

                      Comment


                      • charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                        Yeah I see Sullinger as a low risk high reward move, a bit like Bennett last summer, except Sullinger is better.

                        His per 36 stats are pretty good, too.
                        Only question is... can we afford the signing bonus of one million cheeseburgers.
                        Crap aside.. tough call on Sully...
                        Big man with a bad back.. bit of an attitude.... hasn't committed to get into shape .. ever..
                        Still.. he is young ... He can give you 12-15 mins a night at the 4 and perhaps getting cut by the Celts is the epiphany he needs to get his game and his body back in shape. One year 5M seems to be the going rate... We have that...
                        Not sure if comes that cheap though.
                        There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                        - TGO

                        Comment


                        • Why are people considering Sullinger? The Celtics have been trying to replace him since they got him. Dude is the least self-motivated player available. Doesn't add anything defensively, and ...

                          What's the point?

                          Someone who doesn't watch him play, but is good at reading stats is going to say something ridiculous in his defense.

                          We do however, all watch the Raps, and know what they are looking for. Can suggestions please at least fit that narrative?

                          Comment


                          • magoon wrote: View Post
                            Stein reporting JJ is off to Miami. One year, $4m.

                            I don't think Masai was gonna mid-level him, so good for JJ.
                            yep. good for him. 4 million is good money.

                            Comment


                            • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                              Why are people considering Sullinger? The Celtics have been trying to replace him since they got him. Dude is the least self-motivated player available. Doesn't add anything defensively, and ...

                              What's the point?

                              Someone who doesn't watch him play, but is good at reading stats is going to say something ridiculous in his defense.

                              We do however, all watch the Raps, and know what they are looking for. Can suggestions please at least fit that narrative?
                              Who would you suggest we go after with a budget of 5.6M dollars ? I don't think Ujiri is too interested in trading Ross. So its FA or bust... Whose on your short list ?
                              There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                              - TGO

                              Comment


                              • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                                yep. good for him. 4 million is good money.
                                If JJ wasn't on the Raptors, he would have made twice as much and he can thank Casey for that.

                                Comment

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