Legacy League S2 Draft

[e_wheazhy_]

Rules are part of life, EW. If you stop following rules at age 6 you're in for an incredibly rough ride in life.

You did add a new point. After your adjustment post in the game thread you posted again and clearly said that I fudged my numbers to gain a competitive edge. If that's not a point then what is? It turned out to be an incorrect point but stuff like that can influence votes. For example, I know I'm not voting for anyone who's dropping incorrect stats to win games.

Yeah, clearly I'm not saying stop following rules. Just sounds like a six year old thing to say lol

And idk, I don't think I added a new point, strategy wise. I refuted a claim that my guys couldn't shoot, and if I had time, I too would have included excel charts and shot charts by distance, for prime years.

And your last point is a good one. If we can refute our opponents points, we are not relying on outsiders to verify information. For example, if I post my adjustment first, you can post after me and make whatever statement you want, and I can't say anything to refute. I have to then count on someone not as invested in the matchup to do their research and refute it on my behalf. Not an effective strategy

[Apollo]

Yeah, clearly I'm not saying stop following rules. Just sounds like a six year old thing to say lol

Well I do have a five year old so maybe my "dadmode" is contaminating my RR posts.

And your last point is a good one. If we can refute our opponents points, we are not relying on outsiders to verify information. For example, if I post my adjustment first, you can post after me and make whatever statement you want, and I can't say anything to refute. I have to then count on someone not as invested in the matchup to do their research and refute it on my behalf. Not an effective strategy

The way I look at it is if I'm winning then I'm in no rush to post adjustments. Why adjust something that is effective?

However, if I'm losing then I need to make adjustments to try and turn things around. I'm already now at a disadvantage but I need to take the risk, make the change and hope my adjustment does the trick. That adjustment needs to be bulletproof because I'm first out of the gate.

I personally think that limitations make the game more strategic because everything you do from the draft, to the lineup, to the rotation, to the game plan, to the adjustments mean something. You have real and potentially devastating consequences due to your choices and strategy in general. If we have no limitation to what we can do then the consequences are lessened and this becomes a contest of activity as opposed to strategy. If we want to weight this towards rewarding activity more then that's cool. My only question is why are we changing the contest in the middle of it? Isn't that stuff best attended to in the next tournament?

[e_wheazhy_]

Well I do have a five year old so maybe my "dadmode" is contaminating my RR posts.



The way I look at it is if I'm winning then I'm in no rush to post adjustments. Why adjust something that is effective?

However, if I'm losing then I need to make adjustments to try and turn things around. I'm already now at a disadvantage but I need to take the risk, make the change and hope my adjustment does the trick. That adjustment needs to be bulletproof because I'm first out of the gate.

I personally think that limitations make the game more strategic because everything you do from the draft, to the lineup, to the rotation, to the game plan, to the adjustments mean something. You have real and potentially devastating consequences due to your choices and strategy in general. If we have no limitation to what we can do then the consequences are lessened and this becomes a contest of activity as opposed to strategy. If we want to weight this towards rewarding activity more then that's cool. My only question is why are we changing the contest in the middle of it? Isn't that stuff best attended to in the next tournament?

You make good points and I agree.

Like I said, I'm not trying to make suggestions, really more just some thoughts

[Axel]

Legacy League S2 Draft

My only question is why are we changing the contest in the middle of it? Isn't that stuff best attended to in the next tournament?

Well that is because I think it's quite clear that something isn't working. Votes and participation are way down. BobLoblaw vs Maury had a total of 7 votes and it was between two undefeated teams. Not a single person outside of participants voted and only half of the original participants even voted. Even of the 7 voters, only 3 people commented (wheazy and myself multiple times and Joey once), so not much discussion taking place either. This has been typical of every matchup since the first round of matches. I'd rather try something new and see if it's better because if things continue as is, there won't be a next year to try anything new. I can't seem to get much participation from the full 12 people who volunteered to be a part of this, let alone get the masses involved, so why not try something different and see if it makes a difference. I love the draft and the strategy but it's frankly not worth the time and effort to see votes of 2-2 with no comments.

[Apollo]

I guess, its just that if we all signed up for something and then one day that doesn't exist anymore, does that make us want to play it more and/or be more active?

One idea could be that each participant has to vote in each game to qualify advancement in the tourney. I guarantee you pretty much everyone votes then.

I'm just thinking back to last year and what might be different now. Correct me if I'm wrong but last year the games for a week weren't all released on the same day, right? We had games starting on different day or am I wrong on that?

If I recall I think we might have been putting stickies on active games last year. That would be tough with a bunch of games but if they were spread out during the week and we were only stickying active games, that might help as well because the games would automatically be bumped to the top. Just a couple thoughts.

[Axel]

I guess, its just that if we all signed up for something and then one day that doesn't exist anymore, does that make us want to play it more and/or be more active?

One idea could be that each participant has to vote in each game to qualify advancement in the tourney. I guarantee you pretty much everyone votes then.

I'm just thinking back to last year and what might be different now. Correct me if I'm wrong but last year the games for a week weren't all released on the same day, right? We had games starting on different day or am I wrong on that?

If I recall I think we might have been putting stickies on active games last year. That would be tough with a bunch of games but if they were spread out during the week and we were only stickying active games, that might help as well because the games would automatically be bumped to the top. Just a couple thoughts.

Last year we had 8 games per round but since I was constantly chasing people down for their gameplans, things ended up being rolled out in waves. But realistically we still had at least 4 games going at once all rolled out on the same day, albeit maybe half at once then the other half 2-3 hours later (this year we had 6 then down to 5 at once which has now been cut down to 4 next round).

Last year I also had access to a PC while this year I am limited to my phone or tablet (which makes copy/paste and formatting harder).

The voting to advance idea really only works this week because next week only 4 teams are alive.

I would agree that generally I don't want to make changes to what people have all ready agreed to be a part of, but since that agreement, we've had two go AWOL (Doge and Mack both didn't submit GPs for their last two matches) and seen voting numbers in the 4-7 range and comments in the 2-3 range. So have people even lived up to what they agreed to be a part of in the first place? If I could honestly say yes, I don't think we'd be having this conversation. I could call out each individual for failing to live up to their end of the bargain but we can all see who voted, who commented and who did nothing. So if a new way gets people involved, or at the very least makes the match threads look less like an embarrassing wasteland, then I'm open to it; which is why I've, repeatedly, asked everyone for their opinion. I think so far only a handful have even done that. Most of the responses seem to point towards some kind of change, so that is where I'm following.

[Apollo]

I hate being one of the few here having this discussion... but I will say that perhaps this extended format may be what did the league in.

The good thing about last year was that the tournament started immediately fresh off the excitement of the draft. Then, being that it's summer, that momentum and reduced teams each week carried everything forward successfully during a time of the year where people have more going on because the weather is so much better. Every game had consequences, something was on the line.

I don't think expanding the scope further brings people in. I mean are people who aren't trying now going to get excited at having to put forward a greater effort? I know I'm not and yet I like the concept of the tournament and the fun competition it brings.

Whatever you decide, thank you for taking the time to put all this together and I hope it works out and we do this again next year.

[Axel]

I hate being one of the few here having this discussion... but I will say that perhaps this extended format may be what did the league in.

The good thing about last year was that the tournament started immediately fresh off the excitement of the draft. Then, being that it's summer, that momentum and reduced teams each week carried everything forward successfully during a time of the year where people have more going on because the weather is so much better. Every game had consequences, something was on the line.

I don't think expanding the scope further brings people in. I mean are people who aren't trying now going to get excited at having to put forward a greater effort? I know I'm not and yet I like the concept of the tournament and the fun competition it brings.

Whatever you decide, thank you for taking the time to put all this together and I hope it works out and we do this again next year.

But the expanded format was a necessity because we didn't get the required 16 teams like last year. That was a simple "adapt or die" situation. So we've been behind the 8 ball since the beginning.

At this point I'm not trying to bring anyone in, just finish this in a fun way that stops the threads looking like the far reaches of RF.

[e_wheazhy_]

But the expanded format was a necessity because we didn't get the required 16 teams like last year. That was a simple "adapt or die" situation. So we've been behind the 8 ball since the beginning.

At this point I'm not trying to bring anyone in, just finish this in a fun way that stops the threads looking like the far reaches of RF.

Maybe we should've hosted the games in the District of Derozan.... would've had tons of fans there

[TrueTorontoFan]

who am i against?

[Maury]

Ok, so we are currently at the standings as (tie breakers determined via random draft generator):

1. Maury
2. BobLoblaw
3. Joey
4. Axel
5. e_wheazy
6. JimiCliff
7. Apollo
8. 3 way tie - TTF, 007, Cody

That sets the next matchups as

Maury vs Play-In Winner*
BobLoblaw vs Apollo
Joey vs JimiCliff
Axel vs e_wheazy

The 3 way play-in will go down like this; each of the teams will be able to write 300 words as to why they deserve to win over the other two teams. They have full freedom to discuss their own team vs each opponent as they see fit as long as the final word count is 300 or less. No adjustments will be used and a single 24 hour period for voting will occur. The winner will face Maury as the 8th seed in the elimination round. The next round can't occur until this one wraps up, so for timing I would like to see the 3 way play-in go down either Wednesday or Thursday with the elimination round going live in one week (Monday the 15th - making gameplans due in exactly one week from today - Sunday). That should give everyone, even Maury who won't know his opponent for a few days, enough time.

The discussion on how to modify the rules is still up in the air but some changes are definitely going to happen. Any thoughts, opinions or suggestions are still welcomed as we try to figure this out.

Please give this post a like or a response so that I k ow everyone has seen it and is aware of what's going on. Thanks

who am i against?

Read this.

[Axel]

Read this.

Indeed.

[Cody73]

BTW, my words are in.

I only used 223, but I think it's effective enough.

Also, using 2K, I created my team by using my favorite versions of players and simulated a season. We finished 58-24 and 16-7 with a title.

Magic led the way in scoring, but Havlicek was Finals MVP.

[Axel]

007 has also submitted so just TTF left to go.

[Maury]

BTW, my words are in.

I only used 223, but I think it's effective enough.

Also, using 2K, I created my team by using my favorite versions of players and simulated a season. We finished 58-24 and 16-7 with a title.

Magic led the way in scoring, but Havlicek was Finals MVP.

What teams were in the league that you simulated?