Everything Jared Sullinger

[DanH]

Dunn beat out Rubio for the starting spot. Other than him and Hield, I can't think of any. Not really counting Siakam in this though.

That's a mistake by Thibodeau. Rubio is a magician, everyone always does better with Rubio than without him, on both ends.

[Mess]

Oh I didn't know Rubio got benched. That sucks. There goes a bunch of highlights. Is Thibs playing the long game then? That hurts the people who had them pegged for like 40-50 wins and the playoffs.

[Lupe]

It amazes me how underrated Rubio is. Probably the best passing playmaker in the league save LBJ or CP3, he's a very, very good defender both in team defense and on the ball and he doesn't care if he doesn't take a shot, ultimate team player. He's an absolute pickpocket too, he's led the league in steals percentage 3 times in his 5 seasons in the NBA.

I wouldn't be surprised to see San Antonio try to acquire him as a long-term solution at PG with Parker aging.

[JamesNaismith]

Clearly Thibs thinking long term. In the admittingly very few clips I've seen it does seem as if Dunn and KAT have a better chemistry. I just think Thibs wants to establish them as the leaders asap (sorry Wiggins) because they both have strong personalities.

As an aside Wiggins really hasn't lived up to the LBJ-esque hype and no I don't expect him to be the same player because they actually play nothing alike but I really thought AW had a chance to be something like Paul George but so far offensively he reminds me a lot more of Iggy or Kawhi and although he is a fairly good defender has a long way to go from reaching their level which is no knock against him but rather a credit to them. I think that's the role he's going to need to accept moving forward. He's just not dynamic offensively.

[DogeLover1234]

Clearly Thibs thinking long term. In the admittingly very few clips I've seen it does seem as if Dunn and KAT have a better chemistry. I just think Thibs wants to establish them as the leaders asap (sorry Wiggins) because they both have strong personalities.

As an aside Wiggins really hasn't lived up to the LBJ-esque hype and no I don't expect him to be the same player because they actually play nothing alike but I really thought AW had a chance to be something like Paul George but so far offensively he reminds me a lot more of Iggy or Kawhi and although he is a fairly good defender has a long way to go from reaching their level which is no knock against him but rather a credit to them. I think that's the role he's going to need to accept moving forward. He's just not dynamic offensively.

In fairness to Wiggins, hes had two years, one of which was with a very bad coach. I expect him to take a big step forward.

[Chr1s1anL]

That's how it's looked at everywhere but in Raptorland.

This

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

[Chr1s1anL]

Obviously Dunn was giving Rubio the business at practise.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

[JamesNaismith]

In fairness to Wiggins, hes had two years, one of which was with a very bad coach. I expect him to take a big step forward.

Yeeeaaah somewhat...I liken that more to how poorly the team has done and performed but his individual talent doesn't stand out (like his athleticism does). I may get flamed for this but he really doesn't look that much more skilled than DeRozan did but he has better range on his jumper. His ballhandling looks awkward and he really seems to lack creativity.

Of course I 100% agree and understand it's only been a couple of years and there is PLENTY of time for him to develop still I'm just saying SO FAR he doesn't look anywhere near the hype he got coming into the league (KAT does and then some - in fact KAT looks better at literally everything even as a big man). I just don't think he has that franchise level talent, like DD I think he can develop into an all-star and given that he has a better jumper AND better defender he can be that much more effective/better but I just don't see elite, franchise SF in him. I think he can be a great complimentary SF in the mold of Iggy (first) and if he were incredibly dedicated a very big perhaps be something like a Kawhi or Pippen. He just lacks the fluidity, ballhandling and creativity that you seen even early on in the truly elite/great wing players. I'm sure the TWolves (as would anyone) will still be happy as hell with a Kawhi like player anyways.

[Thespianoid]

Dunn beat out Rubio for the starting spot.

what? no he didn't.

Dunn hasn't looked like a passable backup PG yet, let alone good enough to supplant Rubio and lead the entire team. No way Thibs starts Dunn if he's thinking about winning more games and getting to the playoffs.

In fact, I can see Thibs running Rubio/Dunn together for stretches as Dunn seems to be more of a secondary ballhander at this stage.

[Lupe]

That's how it's looked at everywhere but in Raptorland.

Pretty much, I mean forcing the other team to foul you is smart. A free throw is the most efficient shot in basketball, an 80% free throw shooter generates 1.6PPP when they go to the line. You would have to shoot over 50% from the 3PT line to get that kind of return on each possession.

The argument against it is that free throws depend on officiating to an extent. But I'd argue that three point shots have their own version of variance, and why it isn't official dependent, players' percentages tend to fluctuate significantly from game to game even for the very best shooters. While a player's attempts might be lower in a more loosely called game, the shooting percentages tend to not vary as much as 3PT percentages do.

The other added benefit of free throws, especially for a team like ours that doesn't really run much and plays a more methodical pace, is that they allow you to set up your defense. It's very rare that a free throw attempt (even a missed one) leads to a quick run out and easy score for the other team.

In this modern era it seems like getting to the line is almost something that's looked down upon, which really doesn't make much sense at all. It is the single most efficient offensive possession other than an uncontested dunk or layup attempt.

[golden]

Pretty much, I mean forcing the other team to foul you is smart. A free throw is the most efficient shot in basketball, an 80% free throw shooter generates 1.6PPP when they go to the line. You would have to shoot over 50% from the 3PT line to get that kind of return on each possession.

The argument against it is that free throws depend on officiating to an extent. But I'd argue that three point shots have their own version of variance, and why it isn't official dependent, players' percentages tend to fluctuate significantly from game to game even for the very best shooters. While a player's attempts might be lower in a more loosely called game, the shooting percentages tend to not vary as much as 3PT percentages do.

The other added benefit of free throws, especially for a team like ours that doesn't really run much and plays a more methodical pace, is that they allow you to set up your defense. It's very rare that a free throw attempt (even a missed one) leads to a quick run out and easy score for the other team.

In this modern era it seems like getting to the line is almost something that's looked down upon, which really doesn't make much sense at all. It is the single most efficient offensive possession other than an uncontested dunk or layup attempt.

The bigger argument against FTs as a primary offensive strategy is that they depend highly upon how the other team decides to defend you - which is out of your control. If, for example, they put a good defender (PG, Otto Porter, Luol Deng, etc...) or double-team you, but you continue to force your game instead of passing, then you're not going to get to the FT line.

If the player who is now being defended without fouling hasn't used the regular season developing enough passing chemistry and timing with those secondary options, like: finding cutters, finding shooters in rhythm and hitting rolling big men with passes they can handle, then the entire offense ends up suffering.

Obviously, this is highly applicable to the playoffs, since playoff teams are generally the better or best defensive teams. You can sum it all up in "just make better decisions", but it's a real "mind-set" problem. You tell a player like Lowry or DD to be full-out aggressive going towards the basket and seek physical contact in the paint to get fouled during the regular season and now they have to start looking all around for options during the playoffs. It's not as easy for the player to change that mindset as people think, at the speed the professional game is played at.

[Lupe]

The bigger argument against FTs as a primary offensive strategy is that they depend highly upon how the other team decides to defend you - which is out of your control. If, for example, they put a good defender (PG, Otto Porter, Luol Deng, etc...) or double-team you, but you continue to force your game instead of passing, then you're not going to get to the FT line.

If the player who is now being defended without fouling hasn't used the regular season developing enough passing chemistry and timing with those secondary options, like: finding cutters, finding shooters in rhythm and hitting rolling big men with passes they can handle, then the entire offense ends up suffering.

Obviously, this is highly applicable to the playoffs, since playoff teams are generally the better or best defensive teams. You can sum it all up in "just make better decisions", but it's a real "mind-set" problem. You tell a player like Lowry or DD to be full-out aggressive going towards the basket and seek physical contact in the paint to get fouled during the regular season and now they have to start looking all around for options during the playoffs. It's not as easy for the player to change that mindset as people think, at the speed the professional game is played at.

You've put a completely unnecessary qualifier in there that I didn't use. Nobody said it should be the primary offensive strategy, just that it is a viable one and can be effective.

[golden]

You've put a completely unnecessary qualifier in there that I didn't use. Nobody said it should be the primary offensive strategy, just that it is a viable one and can be effective.

Yes, you're right it shouldn't be, but since we're talking about the Raptors, FTs unfortunately are.

Here's a pretty concise summary of the offensive strategy, from Casey himself....

“We do get a lot of in-between shots,” says Dwane Casey, a coach of the year candidate. “But what kills the analytics geniuses is the fact that we get fouled enough to compensate. We take care of the ball. We get enough buckets, even if they are unassisted.”

The Raptors are not some anti-analytics Luddite team. They launch a ton of 3s, they attack the rim like bulldogs, and they feast at the foul line — though less so since DeMar DeRozan’s groin injury. Patrick Patterson comes off the bench to spot up and give Toronto’s crew of dribbling tricksters more room to operate in the pick-and-roll

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/th...s-master-plan/

That was 2 seasons ago, but not much has really changed in core strategy. The main adjustment last season was the defence.

[Lupe]

Yes, you're right it shouldn't be, but since we're talking about the Raptors, FTs unfortunately are.

Here's a pretty concise summary of the offensive strategy, from Casey himself....



http://grantland.com/the-triangle/th...s-master-plan/

That was 2 seasons ago, but not much has really changed in core strategy. The main adjustment last season was the defence.

Attacking the rim doesn't mean free throws are plan A. Plan A is to score a basket at the rim. If the opponent impedes your progress and fouls you, well that's part of the game of basketball.

It's not like all, or even a significant portion of our free throws are coming from faking guys into the air. If DeMar/Lowry is about to go for a layup or JV's going for a hook and they get hacked that's the opponent being forced to foul to prevent a basket, not the offensive player relying on free throws to score.

[DanH]

Yes, you're right it shouldn't be, but since we're talking about the Raptors, FTs unfortunately are.

Here's a pretty concise summary of the offensive strategy, from Casey himself....



http://grantland.com/the-triangle/th...s-master-plan/

That was 2 seasons ago, but not much has really changed in core strategy. The main adjustment last season was the defence.

I agree that drawing fouls is a primary factor in the offence, but descriptively it really is that "attack the rim" line. Yes, they draw fouls, but most of them are aggression-caused, not trickery-caused (unlike with Lou Williams a couple years ago). They get the occasional pump fake foul or sneaky foul but most are necessary to prevent a layup.

I also agree that the mindset needs to shift a bit this year, but I don't think that that means a change to the strategy. Just more practice making reads on drives should help. Especially with DeRozan's ability to slow down at the end of a drive and put up a floater from 5 feet - that gives him the option of evaluating his options when he gets into the paint, rather than having to go full speed to the rim and make that pass-shoot decision much quicker. DeRozan in particular has improved leaps and bounds in his playmaking as time has gone on, and I see no reason why he can't keep incrementally improving. Ultimately the playoffs will depend on him learning from last spring - he wasn't failing to make passes because he was too aggressive and too focused on getting to the rim, he was failing to make passes in favour of settling for jump shots. That's not a system issue, it's a decision-making issue.