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Thread: ESPN Eastern conference projections

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar Scraptor's Avatar
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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    I actually feel bad for Nets fans
    A lot of those guys were cocky as fuck 3-4 years ago when they thought they were getting Dwight and other stars. I have zero sympathy for them now.

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  3. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    A lot of those guys were cocky as fuck 3-4 years ago when they thought they were getting Dwight and other stars. I have zero sympathy for them now.
    "fuck brooklyn"

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  5. #23
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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    Am I the only one who doesn't think Boston is being overrated? lol. Also I think New York makes the playoffs. I don't get why people are so down on them as well. I know the whole injury thing but if they stay relatively healthy and are healthy going into the playoffs I wouldn't want to pay them
    Melo looks rejuvenated this summer ya never know

  6. #24
    Raptors Republic Veteran Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    Am I the only one who doesn't think Boston is being overrated? lol. Also I think New York makes the playoffs. I don't get why people are so down on them as well. I know the whole injury thing but if they stay relatively healthy and are healthy going into the playoffs I wouldn't want to pay them
    i don't think they are being over-rated but the idea that they got better and we got worse is wrong to me. we improved our starting 5. the substitution of sullinger for scola is bigger than horford for sullinger.

    relatively healthy for rose and noah is like 60 games, and for rose that is pushing it. melo is one bad week of losses away from quitting on the team and getting ready for next year plus they all have to learn how to play with each other. rose and melo are two ball dominators who have to learn to share one ball, while give porzingis touches. i think the knicks make the playoffs but i could also see them just burning up by january.

  7. #25
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i don't think they are being over-rated but the idea that they got better and we got worse is wrong to me. we improved our starting 5. the substitution of sullinger for scola is bigger than horford for sullinger.

    relatively healthy for rose and noah is like 60 games, and for rose that is pushing it. melo is one bad week of losses away from quitting on the team and getting ready for next year plus they all have to learn how to play with each other. rose and melo are two ball dominators who have to learn to share one ball, while give porzingis touches. i think the knicks make the playoffs but i could also see them just burning up by january.
    You really think Scola to Sullinger is bigger leap than Sullinger to Horford? I feel a lot of you really underestimate Horford and his talent because of your hate for Boston or something lol. And you're probably right about New York. I see the many negatives but for some reason I'm a little higher on them than most.
    Last edited by GLF; Mon Jul 25th, 2016 at 11:26 PM.
    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

  8. #26
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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    You really think Scola to Sullinger is bigger leap than Sullinger to Horford? I feel a lot of you really underestimate Horford and his talent because of your hate for Boston or something lol. And you're probably right about New York. I see the many negatives but for some reason I'm a little higher on them than most.
    Sullinger is almost irrelevant to the conversation. Scola was so bad, especially in terms of fit with the players he was stuck beside, but also in terms of his overall play, especially as the year came to a close, that any upgrade from Scola to a passable starter would be a bigger leap than going from a passable starter to Horford. Not much of a difference, but I can definitely see the argument.

    Consider his effect on our three top players:

    JV: -6 on court net rating with Scola, +16 without
    DD: -3 NRTG with Scola, +9 without
    Lowry: -2 NRTG with Scola, +14 without

    You think Horford can have an impact like that on his teammates? If all Sully does is break even, that's an insane upgrade from Scola based on those impact numbers.

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  10. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Sullinger is almost irrelevant to the conversation. Scola was so bad, especially in terms of fit with the players he was stuck beside, but also in terms of his overall play, especially as the year came to a close, that any upgrade from Scola to a passable starter would be a bigger leap than going from a passable starter to Horford. Not much of a difference, but I can definitely see the argument.
    this is my overall point.

  11. #28
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Sullinger is almost irrelevant to the conversation. Scola was so bad, especially in terms of fit with the players he was stuck beside, but also in terms of his overall play, especially as the year came to a close, that any upgrade from Scola to a passable starter would be a bigger leap than going from a passable starter to Horford. Not much of a difference, but I can definitely see the argument.

    Consider his effect on our three top players:

    JV: -6 on court net rating with Scola, +16 without
    DD: -3 NRTG with Scola, +9 without
    Lowry: -2 NRTG with Scola, +14 without

    You think Horford can have an impact like that on his teammates? If all Sully does is break even, that's an insane upgrade from Scola based on those impact numbers.
    Damn I didn't realize Scola was THAT bad in terms of his affect on our top 3 players. I knew his play went to shit and he was bad on his own but to see how much it affected our other players is crazy. But doesn't Sullinger bring a lot of the same issues Scola hate? He's slow and unathletic just like Scola, he's a bad defender and we are probably going to have him being used as more of a perimeter scorer for spacing like we did Scola even though neither are efficient perimeter scorers. So don't you think on our team at least he might be just as net negative for us as Scola was? I know he's a lot more talented but if we keep him on the perimeter for the most part and with his bad defense he might not end up being that much better.
    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

  12. #29
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    Because to me Jared is much worse fit on our team because we are going to play him alongside JV than he was on Boston. JV being an inside post player causes Casey to think that he HAS to make the PF that plays alongside JV a perimeter player. He did it to both Amir and Scola even though neither were known for their shooting ability. Sullinger is the same in the sense that he isn't a great perimeter shooter. So if that's how we end up using him mostly for spacing purposes I can see him being just as bad as Scola or just SLIGHTLY better. Because he isn't going to give you any defense so you have to try to at least us him correctly offensively. And we all know Casey won't be doing that.
    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

  13. #30
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    Oh well. I guess that's why we have Patterson
    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

  14. #31
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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    Oh well. I guess that's why we have Patterson
    Indeed.

    But no, Sully is not as bad as Scola, mobility-wise. Nowhere close. Plus, Scola with all his slowness played predominantly at PF. Sully get by all accounts will get a good chunk of his minutes as a backup C, where mobility will be less of an issue.

  15. #32
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Indeed.

    But no, Sully is not as bad as Scola, mobility-wise. Nowhere close. Plus, Scola with all his slowness played predominantly at PF. Sully get by all accounts will get a good chunk of his minutes as a backup C, where mobility will be less of an issue.
    Very true. Well I hope you're right. As long as he's an improvement from Scola I'll be happy. Because from what you showed me Scola was a mess. It's crazy Casey let that Scola experiment go on for so long. And it's sad that he STILL isn't going to let Patterson start. Smh.
    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

  16. #33
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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    Because to me Jared is much worse fit on our team because we are going to play him alongside JV than he was on Boston. JV being an inside post player causes Casey to think that he HAS to make the PF that plays alongside JV a perimeter player. He did it to both Amir and Scola even though neither were known for their shooting ability. Sullinger is the same in the sense that he isn't a great perimeter shooter. So if that's how we end up using him mostly for spacing purposes I can see him being just as bad as Scola or just SLIGHTLY better. Because he isn't going to give you any defense so you have to try to at least us him correctly offensively. And we all know Casey won't be doing that.
    All of this. Its why I can't get behind the signing as much as I want to, because we all know that Sullinger will be pigeonholed as a stretch 4 despite not being one. This is where DeRozan not being able to consistently stretch the floor causes a trickle down effect-- Casey won't play Sullinger in his traditional role as a paint presence.

  17. #34
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    Quote Sinbad wrote: View Post
    All of this. Its why I can't get behind the signing as much as I want to, because we all know that Sullinger will be pigeonholed as a stretch 4 despite not being one. This is where DeRozan not being able to consistently stretch the floor causes a trickle down effect-- Casey won't play Sullinger in his traditional role as a paint presence.
    That's my worry. And we all know it's gonna happen. And then his defense isn't good enough to make up for it like Amir's was for example. But as Dan H said he should be better than Scola and we got far with Scola so that's the positive way of thinking about it
    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

  18. #35
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    So they're saying essentially the Raptors maintain their position in the conference. I mean, yeah, sure this sounds reasonable except for the Scola bit.

  19. #36
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Let's not act like the genius Brad Stevens hasn't had Sully shooting a whole punch of 3s over the last 3 years.
    @Chr1st1anL

  20. #37
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    I think Sully should be shooting threes (corner threes only). Or at least long two's. To stretch the floor. That's why he is here.

    Not sure why everyone is enamoured with his post play. He's not very good in the post. About 0.8 PPP last season with only a 41% FG% from the post. In terms of team scoring, his team only managed about 0.6 PPP on plays where he got the ball in the post, so he's not creating offence from there either. Compare those numbers to JV's 0.87 PPP individually and 1.03 PPP team-wide on plays where he posts up. Silly to give post possessions to Sully when JV is out there.

    Meanwhile, Sully shot 31% from 3 on catch and shoot opportunities (which is not great, but he is outside his range above the break, and it's better than his general 28%). And shot 44% on shots from 20-24 feet last season (ie corner three and long two range).

  21. #38
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    I think Sully should be shooting threes (corner threes only). Or at least long two's. To stretch the floor. That's why he is here.

    Not sure why everyone is enamoured with his post play. He's not very good in the post. About 0.8 PPP last season with only a 41% FG% from the post. In terms of team scoring, his team only managed about 0.6 PPP on plays where he got the ball in the post, so he's not creating offence from there either. Compare those numbers to JV's 0.87 PPP individually and 1.03 PPP team-wide on plays where he posts up. Silly to give post possessions to Sully when JV is out there.

    Meanwhile, Sully shot 31% from 3 on catch and shoot opportunities (which is not great, but he is outside his range above the break, and it's better than his general 28%). And shot 44% on shots from 20-24 feet last season (ie corner three and long two range).
    Disagree about stretching the floor being the main reason Sully's here. Sullinger is a versatile scorer and one of his biggest strengths is offensive rebounding and then finishing it nicely around the basket. Those OREB/putback skills complement DD & Lowry's low FG% game well, just like when we had the JV/Amir frontcourt.

    Sure, we will see some Sully in the corner, and maybe even JV in the corner from time to time, but I suspect we also see a lot of Sully/Lowry screen & roll, with Sully hunting for OREBs off the Lowry miss.

  22. #39
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I thought this was interesting

    @Chr1st1anL

  23. #40
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I thought this was interesting

    That's cute. They thought the numbers from an entire season lied because he got hot for a month (really, for the back half of November)? Ridiculous. Sully's splits last year, month by month 3PT%:

    Nov: 36% <- right at the end of this the above video was made
    Dec: 15%
    Jan: 21%
    Feb: 18%
    Mar: 46%
    Apr: 33%

    Taking tiny samples and making arguments off them is a bad idea. There's a lot of variance to three point shooting. Patterson wasn't suddenly a bad shooter early last year. Sully wasn't suddenly a good one. His range simple doesn't extend out to the top of the arc. He's great a few feet in from there.

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