Any chance we get our hands on Griffin next summer?

[Lupe]

I agree if it lands us our missing starting PF. You gave the example of a young guy who might be a decent starter or might not. If you can trade CoJo for a star PF, yay. But I'm not trading him away to make room for guys who may not ever be as good as him.

Yeah but look at a team like Orlando for example. In exchange for Ibaka (or hell who knows maybe they'd move Gordon, he's not being used right) I'd imagine they'd want a point guard as part of the deal, given that Peyton has been really bad so far in his career and Augustin is a one-way player and very one dimensional. They might even look at CoJo as someone who could come in and start, giving a calming and stable presence to the PG position to help their young guys play better.

You have to consider that if you're Toronto especially when you have Delon Wright who could easily end up being at CoJo's level and has the size to defend both guard spots as well.

[Mess]

Easily? Playing defense like CoJo usually does is not easy.

[Hotshot]

I'd rather sign Gallinari, he is really a good stretch 4. Colangelo got the wrong
Italian!

[DanH]

Yeah but look at a team like Orlando for example. In exchange for Ibaka (or hell who knows maybe they'd move Gordon, he's not being used right) I'd imagine they'd want a point guard as part of the deal, given that Peyton has been really bad so far in his career and Augustin is a one-way player and very one dimensional. They might even look at CoJo as someone who could come in and start, giving a calming and stable presence to the PG position to help their young guys play better.

You have to consider that if you're Toronto especially when you have Delon Wright who could easily end up being at CoJo's level and has the size to defend both guard spots as well.

Oh, gosh, no thank you very much to trading Cory to get a rapidly declining Serge Ibaka. Maybe for Gordon, but I seriously doubt ORL looks to move him.

[rightsideup]

I'd rather sign Gallinari, he is really a good stretch 4. Colangelo got the wrong
Italian!

i always liked his game he had that nasty injury bug. I really enjoy story lines were players such as Livingston come back from injuries

[lewro]

Oh, gosh, no thank you very much to trading Cory to get a rapidly declining Serge Ibaka. Maybe for Gordon, but I seriously doubt ORL looks to move him.

Not like millsap is getting any younger or brons gonna go play minor league baseball. Younger guy is probably better fit.

[DanH]

Not like millsap is getting any younger or brons gonna go play minor league baseball. Younger guy is probably better fit.

I'd prefer Millsap 10 times out of 10 over Ibaka - Ibaka has already started his (steep) decline, Millsap has shown no sign of it.

[lewro]

I'd prefer Millsap 10 times out of 10 over Ibaka - Ibaka has already started his (steep) decline, Millsap has shown no sign of it.

That's not the point

[DanH]

That's not the point

What is the point? If the entire argument is going to be LeBron is great so forget winning and let's aim for 5 years from now, I'm not buying it. When you have enough talent to win 50+ games and make the conference finals, you add to it, you don't bail on the key players to try to set yourself up for a distant future. Heck, even then the suggestion to trade Joseph makes no sense, he's one of our best young players.

[lewro]

What is the point? If the entire argument is going to be LeBron is great so forget winning and let's aim for 5 years from now, I'm not buying it. When you have enough talent to win 50+ games and make the conference finals, you add to it, you don't bail on the key players to try to set yourself up for a distant future. Heck, even then the suggestion to trade Joseph makes no sense, he's one of our best young players.

You've got jv and dd locked up at a different window. Add a piece that fits there. Lebron IS so great whether you buy it or not. Lowry will still be useful in a few years but hes not beating lebron today and millsap won't put us over the top either and he will cost a lot. Masai's playing the patient game. We would give up a lot to get millsap. Best case gets us to ecf game seven loss. Maybe if cavs have a key injury but not sure Hawks are gonna be bad this year anyway. Rather get a younger guy that puts us in the finals conversation for a few years and retain some of our youth, prospects to stay relevant longer and pivot if need be.
Cojo is great. But hes not the difference between winning finals or not. He's a role player.

[DanH]

You've got jv and dd locked up at a different window. Add a piece that fits there. Lebron IS so great whether you buy it or not. Lowry will still be useful in a few years but hes not beating lebron today and millsap won't put us over the top either and he will cost a lot. Masai's playing the patient game. We would give up a lot to get millsap. Best case gets us to ecf game seven loss. Maybe if cavs have a key injury but not sure Hawks are gonna be bad this year anyway. Rather get a younger guy that puts us in the finals conversation for a few years and retain some of our youth, prospects to stay relevant longer and pivot if need be.
Cojo is great. But hes not the difference between winning finals or not. He's a role player.

So if you want a young, great player, why would you trade CoJo? If we are planning for a future around DD and JV, that means moving on from Lowry, right? So your plan is to trade away our best young PG to fill a current need (that may not exist when the younger core comes into their own)? Delightful.

Masai playing the patient game is fine, and I am fine with that. But you don't trade away young, cheap players if you are playing the patient game. You don't HAVE to trade at all. If you do, I'm of the mindset that you pick a direction - either you want to get better now, and you trade for a guy who will make you better now; or you don't, and you don't trade away youth for other youth to shuffle the deck chairs, you bail on Carroll and/or Lowry and rebuild. No interest in the latter.

And what window exactly do you think we have JV locked up for? He's locked up for two years after this one.

[lewro]

So if you want a young, great player, why would you trade CoJo? If we are planning for a future around DD and JV, that means moving on from Lowry, right? So your plan is to trade away our best young PG to fill a current need (that may not exist when the younger core comes into their own)? Delightful.

Masai playing the patient game is fine, and I am fine with that. But you don't trade away young, cheap players if you are playing the patient game. You don't HAVE to trade at all. If you do, I'm of the mindset that you pick a direction - either you want to get better now, and you trade for a guy who will make you better now; or you don't, and you don't trade away youth for other youth to shuffle the deck chairs, you bail on Carroll and/or Lowry and rebuild. No interest in the latter.

And what window exactly do you think we have JV locked up for? He's locked up for two years after this one.

Cojo doesn't have to be the one traded, I never said that but you have to give up some value.
I said Lowry will still be useful. As I've said, we should be giving mins to fvv and dw as well.
You do trade youth if you get youth back that is a better fit. I'd trade dw for portis.
Jv will be in his prime by end of that contract. I am guessing he resign if he is a focal point on a championship contender and we have his bird rights. That's 3 yrs, not 5. Brons decline vs our growth should close the gap.
Brons on another "tier"😉

[DanH]

Cojo doesn't have to be the one traded, I never said that but you have to give up some value.
I said Lowry will still be useful. As I've said, we should be giving mins to fvv and dw as well.
You do trade youth if you get youth back that is a better fit. I'd trade dw for portis.
Jv will be in his prime by end of that contract. I am guessing he resign if he is a focal point on a championship contender and we have his bird rights. That's 3 yrs, not 5. Brons decline vs our growth should close the gap.
Brons on another "tier"��

Trading Delon Wright is an entirely different conversation than trading CoJo. If we are keeping Lowry anyway, we should be pushing to win with him as much as possible now. If Lowry will still be useful, so too will be a guy like Millsap.

That said, cashing in some unproven prospects at stacked positions for young players with starting potential at another position? Yeah, that's an obvious move that the other team will almost certainly not be interesting in accommodating.

[lewro]

Trading Delon Wright is an entirely different conversation than trading CoJo. If we are keeping Lowry anyway, we should be pushing to win with him as much as possible now. If Lowry will still be useful, so too will be a guy like Millsap.

That said, cashing in some unproven prospects at stacked positions for young players with starting potential at another position? Yeah, that's an obvious move that the other team will almost certainly not be interesting in accommodating.

The conversation, in my mind, is about trading for a pf (e.g. Griffin, which is the thread topic). Cojo, wright and others should be considered. It's not a trade cojo thread.
Wright is unproven bc he doesn't get pt. I've advocated for this and it could prolong Lowry's career. You've argued to keep a conservative rotation. If he proves himself then he would have value commensurate with Portis. The trade partner will do that if it improves a weakness from a position of strength.
Lowry and millsap are good players but not on lebrons "tier" and unfortunately they are the same age cohort.
I think Masai will be patient and hopefully Casey is less conservative. Internal development and raising the stock of our youth and picks puts us in the best position if a trade target becomes available.
I'm looking closer at guys like jabari, Gordon, Lyles, etc. Likely not at the deadline but longer term. I'm sure Masai is interested in millsap but I imagine he balks at the price just like ibaka.
We are a young team. Lowry and Carroll can still play roles in the future but they are not top "tier" in their age cohort to hang championship hopes on, especially with lebron. Jv and dd have a better shot imo.

[DanH]

The conversation, in my mind, is about trading for a pf (e.g. Griffin, which is the thread topic). Cojo, wright and others should be considered. It's not a trade cojo thread.
Wright is unproven bc he doesn't get pt. I've advocated for this and it could prolong Lowry's career. You've argued to keep a conservative rotation. If he proves himself then he would have value commensurate with Portis. The trade partner will do that if it improves a weakness from a position of strength.
Lowry and millsap are good players but not on lebrons "tier" and unfortunately they are the same age cohort.
I think Masai will be patient and hopefully Casey is less conservative. Internal development and raising the stock of our youth and picks puts us in the best position if a trade target becomes available.
I'm looking closer at guys like jabari, Gordon, Lyles, etc. Likely not at the deadline but longer term. I'm sure Masai is interested in millsap but I imagine he balks at the price just like ibaka.
We are a young team. Lowry and Carroll can still play roles in the future but they are not top "tier" in their age cohort to hang championship hopes on, especially with lebron. Jv and dd have a better shot imo.

I have no issue with the OP. Trading for a star PF type is exactly what we should be doing.

You brought up that we should look at teams looking to sell youth to try to make the playoffs. I very much disagree with that notion.

Jabari, Gordon and Lyles - well, you can give up on Jabari, but for the other two, I'm certain their teams would not consider moving them for a piece like Wright. They'd want a CoJo type piece, and I don't know if I'd give him up for a player of that calibre. Someone like Portis (who I have no interest in at this point) you might be able to get with Wright, sure. But again, you're shuffling deck chairs. We aren't lacking capable PF's. We have those. What we don't have is a star or borderline star PF. If we aren't upgrading to one of those, better to sit tight than make trades for the sake of making trades.