Everything 2016/17 NBA Draft Thread aka Thank Nation 2.0

[lewro]

I only watched the tournament so based on that I liked Jackson more than Ball. Haven't seen Fultz play.
I don't know enough about the players/deal but my first reaction was Bryco must like Fultz a lot bc those are some pretty good assets that he's put on the table.

[Ebonhawke]

Again, will be interesting to see the protections - if both picks are top 5 protected ...

[magoon]

The return is rumoured to be #3 overall in 2017, the Lakers first round pick next year, and the Kings first round pick in 2019. Both of the subsequent picks are expected to have some protections (not yet disclosed), so it's less likely to be a massive fleecing similar to the Nets deal. Celtics message board is still not happy with the deal, and fueling rampant speculation of a using the additional picks to trade for an NBA star of your choice.

It's actually less than that. It's the #3 this year and the Lakers first-rounder next year, but the Lakers pick is protected 2-5 so if it doesn't convey the Celtics get the Sacramento pick instead. The Lakers pick probably conveys, though - the Baby Lakers were showing real flashes last year, Luke Walton is a damn good coach and they're probably going to add a transformational piece this year.

Still, while I think the Celtics like Josh Jackson, I also think they like Jimmy Butler or Paul George more, and that's the actual point of this entire exercise. They have a ridiculous horde of picks now. A top-three pick this year, Minnesota's second-rounder this year (37th, pretty decent for a second-rounder given the depth of the draft), two likely lottery picks next year (LA and Brooklyn's) plus their own pick, and then in 2019 they have their own, the Clippers' first and Memphis' first. I think at this point Danny Ainge has recognized he needs star players and he only has one true star player (Isaiah Thomas) and he's going to start spending those picks like cash to get Butler, George, or maybe even both, and then use the starpower of IT and Butler and/or George (and Al Horford, sure, why not) to sign either Gordon Hayward or Blake Griffin. IT/Butler/Hayward/Horford, IT/Butler/Griffin/Horford and IT/George/Griffin/Horford are all deadly lineups.

Were it me, I'd spend whatever picks were necessary to get Butler, and sign Griffin. Then you've got a team that looks like

IT/Smart
Butler/Bradley
Crowder/Brown
Griffin/Zeller
Horford/Olynyk

That's ridiculous. Most of their second line is starter-quality players. And if you want to get REALLY crazy, imagine if they trade the rest of the picks, plus, say, Crowder and Smart for Paul George. Now your lineups are

IT/Rozier
Butler/Bradley
PG13/Brown
Griffin/Zeller
Horford/Olynyk

Or maybe they don't trade for George and they sign Hayward AND Griffin - they have the capspace to do it.

IT/Smart/Rozier
Butler/Bradley
Hayward/Crowder/Brown
Griffin/Zeller
Horford/Olynyk

Are you scared yet? Because the Celtics are almost certainly going to be terrifying next year.

[magoon]

I think that's one of the reasons this thread has had less posts then in past years

Well, yeah. Basically it boils down to Raptors fans accepting something a lot of basketball fans have trouble accepting, which is "maybe the GM/president of the team knows more than we do about who's going to be the best player available." Masai tends to draft well. Really, his only stinker was DeAndre Daniels, and that had as much to do with Daniels losing the better part of two years to injuries than anything else. (Bruno doesn't count; he was a gamble. You're allowed a gamble every now and then.)

On top of which, at #23 expectations are relatively low. Like, if Masai drafts Semi Ojeleye, that's great. But if he drafts Jonah Bolden, that's great. If he drafts Jordan Bell, that's great. If he drafts Caleb Swanigan or Josh Hart or Damyean Dotson or Sindarius Thornwell, that's great. There's a crop of decent rotation-level players at our draft rank with a small possibility of lottery-ticket success, and we're all mostly confident that Masai will make a very solid choice out of the pool of players available to him.

[golden]

So apparently the celtics are trading the first pick to the sixers for the third pick and extras because they like josh Jackson. Am I wrong in thinking Danny ainge is completely retarded? I actually really like josh Jackson but he doesn't fit their roster, and he doesn't have superstar potential like fultz or ball do.


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Interesting gambit by Ainge. The only downside, IMO, is passing on Fultz to continue building around a defensive liability at PG in IT and an offensive liability at PG in Marcus Smart. Ainge is protecting that downside somewhat by acquiring extra picks so he could potentially trade for the PG he needs in the future, as it looks like there's going to be a glut of good/great PGs in the league. Celtics have still maintained their "win while building" philosophy, which is largely made possible by Brad Stevens' coaching the roster above their talent level.

[TrueTorontoFan]

It's actually less than that. It's the #3 this year and the Lakers first-rounder next year, but the Lakers pick is protected 2-5 so if it doesn't convey the Celtics get the Sacramento pick instead. The Lakers pick probably conveys, though - the Baby Lakers were showing real flashes last year, Luke Walton is a damn good coach and they're probably going to add a transformational piece this year.

Still, while I think the Celtics like Josh Jackson, I also think they like Jimmy Butler or Paul George more, and that's the actual point of this entire exercise. They have a ridiculous horde of picks now. A top-three pick this year, Minnesota's second-rounder this year (37th, pretty decent for a second-rounder given the depth of the draft), two likely lottery picks next year (LA and Brooklyn's) plus their own pick, and then in 2019 they have their own, the Clippers' first and Memphis' first. I think at this point Danny Ainge has recognized he needs star players and he only has one true star player (Isaiah Thomas) and he's going to start spending those picks like cash to get Butler, George, or maybe even both, and then use the starpower of IT and Butler and/or George (and Al Horford, sure, why not) to sign either Gordon Hayward or Blake Griffin. IT/Butler/Hayward/Horford, IT/Butler/Griffin/Horford and IT/George/Griffin/Horford are all deadly lineups.

Were it me, I'd spend whatever picks were necessary to get Butler, and sign Griffin. Then you've got a team that looks like

IT/Smart
Butler/Bradley
Crowder/Brown
Griffin/Zeller
Horford/Olynyk

That's ridiculous. Most of their second line is starter-quality players. And if you want to get REALLY crazy, imagine if they trade the rest of the picks, plus, say, Crowder and Smart for Paul George. Now your lineups are

IT/Rozier
Butler/Bradley
PG13/Brown
Griffin/Zeller
Horford/Olynyk

Or maybe they don't trade for George and they sign Hayward AND Griffin - they have the capspace to do it.

IT/Smart/Rozier
Butler/Bradley
Hayward/Crowder/Brown
Griffin/Zeller
Horford/Olynyk

Are you scared yet? Because the Celtics are almost certainly going to be terrifying next year.

They wont be able to get both guys they will be able to get one of hayward and Griffin. I wouldn't trade for PG either because they dont want to be come a luxury team right this second aand PG could leave next year. Butler and signing is a much better idea. BUT they iwll have to trade bradley or crowder to do it. The bulls aren't going to just do it without that.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Well, yeah. Basically it boils down to Raptors fans accepting something a lot of basketball fans have trouble accepting, which is "maybe the GM/president of the team knows more than we do about who's going to be the best player available." Masai tends to draft well. Really, his only stinker was DeAndre Daniels, and that had as much to do with Daniels losing the better part of two years to injuries than anything else. (Bruno doesn't count; he was a gamble. You're allowed a gamble every now and then.)

On top of which, at #23 expectations are relatively low. Like, if Masai drafts Semi Ojeleye, that's great. But if he drafts Jonah Bolden, that's great. If he drafts Jordan Bell, that's great. If he drafts Caleb Swanigan or Josh Hart or Damyean Dotson or Sindarius Thornwell, that's great. There's a crop of decent rotation-level players at our draft rank with a small possibility of lottery-ticket success, and we're all mostly confident that Masai will make a very solid choice out of the pool of players available to him.

I really like Semi.. he could become our Draymond.

[Ebonhawke]

Just as a hypothetical, curious as to what Raptors' fans thoughts would be if the same situation (having the first overall pick this year, but being offered the reported package from Philly) was faced by the Raptors' front office. Would you be OK with trading the pick, or keeping it and drafting the player of your choice? There are differences between the Raptors and Celtics rosters, as well as differences in draft pick stockpiles, so might be an interesting discussion on a steamy Sunday in the GTA.

(Also, Happy Father's Day to all!)

[TrueTorontoFan]

Proposed trade on this podcast https://audioboom.com/posts/6018412-...d-2-trades?t=0

Listen around the 34 minute mark onward.

Basically we trade the 23 Cojo + Bebe for the 11th and Jeremy Lamb (or bellinelli)... Yeah do you guys think that its possible??

[TrueTorontoFan]

Just as a hypothetical, curious as to what Raptors' fans thoughts would be if the same situation (having the first overall pick this year, but being offered the reported package from Philly) was faced by the Raptors' front office. Would you be OK with trading the pick, or keeping it and drafting the player of your choice? There are differences between the Raptors and Celtics rosters, as well as differences in draft pick stockpiles, so might be an interesting discussion on a steamy Sunday in the GTA.

(Also, Happy Father's Day to all!)

If I was the celtics I would take the trade ... Apparently they did. So they get the 3rd and the lakers pick from next year for the 1st.

I would do it then flip the 3rd + the Lakers plus Avery for Jimmy Butler and Sign Blake... It would still allow them to keep the nets pick next year LOL

[lewro]

Proposed trade on this podcast https://audioboom.com/posts/6018412-...d-2-trades?t=0

Listen around the 34 minute mark onward.

Basically we trade the 23 Cojo + Bebe for the 11th and Jeremy Lamb (or bellinelli)... Yeah do you guys think that its possible??

Charlotte says no imo

[TrueTorontoFan]

Charlotte says no imo

They have been looking for a back up pg for a while now. Cojo fits that mold. He is cheap. Lamb is good. They aren't looking to draft I think they want to move on up now. Lamb is trash.

[lewro]

They have been looking for a back up pg for a while now. Cojo fits that mold. He is cheap. Lamb is good. They aren't looking to draft I think they want to move on up now. Lamb is trash.

Lamb is good trash?

Cojo and bebe have 1 yr left and project as 2nd/3rd stringers. Charlotte has several 5's under contract and there's plenty of 1s that can be signed for cheap like yogi Farrell was.
It's not enough to move up to the lottery imo. Whatever we think of lamb/bellinelli, shooters are at a premium.

Some here discussed JV + 23 for 11 + mkg. I think most people didn't think Charlotte would do it but at least they get a player under contract that has all star potential, high level rebounder and scorer.

I agree that Charlotte is a good team to target tho.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Lamb is good trash?

Cojo and bebe have 1 yr left and project as 2nd/3rd stringers. Charlotte has several 5's under contract and there's plenty of 1s that can be signed for cheap like yogi Farrell was.
It's not enough to move up to the lottery imo. Whatever we think of lamb/bellinelli, shooters are at a premium.

Some here discussed JV + 23 for 11 + mkg. I think most people didn't think Charlotte would do it but at least they get a player under contract that has all star potential, high level rebounder and scorer.

I agree that Charlotte is a good team to target tho.

I think you underestimate how good cojo is. I am not saying he is a top notch starter but he could start on a team. He is not a 3rd stringer for sure. I like the idea of JV +.... I may have even suggested it lol.

either way like you said they are our targets.

[blackjitsu]

You guys are talking about the Locked On NBA Mock Draft...Lamb doesn't move the needle for me.

I guess it's close enough to the draft that putting my list of players I want the Raps makes sense.

I've been looking at longer players that can switch 3-5 on defense and stretch the floor on offense. That rules out a bunch of high quality gus 6-5 and under. The Raps have Powell. None of those guys are Norman Powell.

Unless Jonathan Isaac slips and the Raps can move up for him, or Jackson falls these are my guys (in order)

1/ Jonah Bolden -- Needs to add muscle, sometimes he slacks off on defense, but this guy can handle the ball a bit, run plays, stretch the floor, guard 3-5, play some post... a little older...

2/Jordan Bell -- A really mobile, effort PF who can switch and I can see him adding a 3 with that form.

3/Tyler Lydon -- I know, I know he needs to spend hours in the tape room. Some of his defense was atrocious at Syracuse, but I see him at the perimeter (he has the athleticism) only guarding 4s on switches and rarely in the paint (where he needs to work on boxing people out). He's young enough, that a season with Stack and the 905 would do him some good. This is an athletic kid who can easily pick and pop, or fade to the corner. For the first couple seasons that's fine

4/ OG Anunoby -- Here's the thing. In an earlier post someone told me that he could mature into Kawhi. That's fair, but players rarely reach their ceilings. Furthermore, I watched a lot of SDSU the year Kawhi was there. Dude was cerebral for a kid. I was on the hype train for him in that draft. OG has the physical makeup, but I'm not convinced he has the cerebral part of his game. Plus he has a mystery injury. Plus his shooting stroke needs a lot of work.

5/Semi Ojeleye -- If I saw him more as a SF and not an undersized PF he would be top of my list. If I thought he was a better passer at the PF spot he would be higher on my list. I think he's really smart, and that might eventually find it's way on the court. But, it might not.

6/DJ Wilson
7/Terrance Ferguson (do not pass Go, go straight to the G League)
8/Kyle Kuzma
9/Devin Robinson (would be a reach but fits the same MO as everyone else on my list)

Thoughts?