Everything 2016/17 NBA Draft Thread aka Thank Nation 2.0

[lewro]

I know you're ballbusting but really not once did I ever guarantee anything n actually made a point of distinguishing the difference between a prediction and a guarantee since I'm making my own predictions on what may happen.

Not sure if this and your previous quote of DogeLover1234 is an attempt to throw subliminal shade lol but if it is please feel kindly to f yourself...if not, you would be wrong in making the assumption I don't watch any of the games. If you couldn't tell I may be one of the few posters that are closely following this draft and the players in them. Of course, no I don't get a chance to watch every game, I do have to have a life outside of watching the Raps lol but yes I have made a point to watch a few of the top prospects in game action (ie/ Fultz, Ball, Monk, Isaac, Markannen, OG, Giles, Bridges). I'm not sure where you're referring to me not commenting on them because I'm obviously probably the most active in this thread and if there is a game thread one, I'm just not aware of it besides my doubts that there's even a good enough volume of posts to respond to lol considering I damn near have to bump this one to get people talking unless there is a disagreement like the past couple of pages.

I obviously have a tough time trying to catch much on international players and not too excited about sitting through a telecast in a different language so I can admit I only go on different scouting reports and footage available on line. You can be a smart ass as much as you want about it but really BOS does have the CHANCE to add POTENTIALLY a couple of franchise level talents. Ball and Fultz really do look like special players if you do in fact watch them as you say. If you weren't trying to be condascending and were just commenting in general, then all good and my bad on this end...if not you know you know where you can stick it.

When you say things like "nearly every analyst" and then only quote Chad ford, it makes me think you're drinking the hype kool aid. Remember, ford was the only guy putting dejounte Murray in the lottery last yr, based on a workout at rich Paul's private gym. Of course ford will hype the draft bc he needs clicks and surely he wants a close relationship with super agents to get info, etc.
I do think lonzo is a good player but his NBA comp is Jason Kidd. Another good player but so is Jimmy Butler. Having watched Kidd at Cal and lonzo at UCLA, I was more impressed with Kidd. Of course, Kidd was a sophomore and nothing is stopping lonzo to be better/just my opinion but based on your responses i get an impression that lonzo and ball = championship and Butler does not. Is Kidd better than Butler? I dunno. I do know that they're both good. I do know for sure that lonzo is 19 and hasn't done anything in the NBA.
Fyi there is an NCAA thread and some of us (including Cody) discuss games live. Which reminds me, I'm missing the raps game vs Butler right now. Was too busy working bc I have a life too, thx. Same reason I missed the NCAA this yr and can admit it.

[JamesNaismith]

When you say things like "nearly every analyst" and then only quote Chad ford, it makes me think you're drinking the hype kool aid. Remember, ford was the only guy putting dejounte Murray in the lottery last yr, based on a workout at rich Paul's private gym. Of course ford will hype the draft bc he needs clicks and surely he wants a close relationship with super agents to get info, etc.
I do think lonzo is a good player but his NBA comp is Jason Kidd. Another good player but so is Jimmy Butler. Having watched Kidd at Cal and lonzo at UCLA, I was more impressed with Kidd. Of course, Kidd was a sophomore and nothing is stopping lonzo to be better/just my opinion but based on your responses i get an impression that lonzo and ball = championship and Butler does not. Is Kidd better than Butler? I dunno. I do know that they're both good. I do know for sure that lonzo is 19 and hasn't done anything in the NBA.
Fyi there is an NCAA thread and some of us (including Cody) discuss games live. Which reminds me, I'm missing the raps game vs Butler right now. Was too busy working bc I have a life too, thx. Same reason I missed the NCAA this yr and can admit it.

You don't have to qualify yourself to me about watching games or not, its you making the shitty assumptions just because you don't agree with my view point. If you don't agree with it state your opinion etc but don't be a jack ass with tongue n cheek comments that you don't even appear to have the fortitude to say directly. We don't have to agree but we can discuss different perspectives but moving along and past that...

Sure you're free to think Kidd was better, I would certainly give him the edge defensively and you're talking about what is almost certainly a HOF so it doesn't make Ball any less of a prospect. But keep in mind Ball is also taller and has much better shooting range than Kidd did coming out of college and the league is much different than when Kidd entered. The league now favours athletic players that can create and shoot which of course is Ball's prominent strengths so I'm yet to see why doesn't project (not guarantee) to be a superstar in this league.

Also I never said that Ball = championship, no one player equals that for the millionth time but I do believe he could be moreso a franchise talent in the future than Butler is. Butler is a great player and has his niche in the league but he's nowhere near MVP conversation and a lot of that has to do again with how the game is played these days. It's up tempo, athletic, creating for others and centered around shooting...that just isn't Jimmy but it could (capitalize that if you want) be Ball.

As for the NCAA thread, never even noticed it lol if it makes you happy that you post there or that it somehow adds "credibility" to your opinions and a couple others good for you, bask in your glory because me not seeing it despite probably adding more opinions and insight into this thread must be completely invalid because I don't post there. Which I'm saying because you pointed it out as if it was to discredit my opinions lol I also never said or even insinuated that you don't have a life just saying that I can't catch everyone of them because I do but I try to catch those that I can. Really I don't want to go back n forth with the petty crap and back to discussing the players and this draft. I think Ball, Fultz, Porter Jr and Ayton all have the potential to be superstars and I don't see how that's not a valid statement (period).

[lewro]

Because you called out other people as short sighted. I think you over value your insight here bc it mostly reads as hype, again, like saying all these analysts support your opinion and then only quoting chad ford - king of hype.
For example, it behooves you as to why most reputable mocks have swanigan as a bubble 1st Rd pick, based on his stats. Well, I finally got to watch him play and it's pretty obvious what the skepticism is after just one game of watching him - he looks like he has to be a 5 and cant defend that position in the modern NBA. It's important to watch games and not just regurgitate chad ford. You ridicule vucevic but swanigan looks prime to join the ranks of O no D 5s. Not much value there and that's why he's on the bubble imo. You stress fit in the modern league and then comp swanigan stats to guys that played in previous eras to support your argument.
As far as being petty, you told me to go fuck myself several times so there's that.
Honestly, I've listened to go on rants all yr but seeing other people finally start to get interested in the draft and then you ridicule them kinda got under my skin. I think there are good reasons to keep the pick and also to trade it and I'm interested to hear opinions on both sides. Thx.

[JamesNaismith]

Because you called out other people as short sighted. I think you over value your insight here bc it mostly reads as hype, again, like saying all these analysts support your opinion and then only quoting chad ford - king of hype.
For example, it behooves you as to why most reputable mocks have swanigan as a bubble 1st Rd pick, based on his stats. Well, I finally got to watch him play and it's pretty obvious what the skepticism is after just one game of watching him - he looks like he has to be a 5 and cant defend that position in the modern NBA. It's important to watch games and not just regurgitate chad ford. You ridicule vucevic but swanigan looks prime to join the ranks of O no D 5s. Not much value there and that's why he's on the bubble imo. You stress fit in the modern league and then comp swanigan stats to guys that played in previous eras to support your argument.
As far as being petty, you told me to go fuck myself several times so there's that.
Honestly, I've listened to go on rants all yr but seeing other people finally start to get interested in the draft and then you ridicule them kinda got under my skin. I think there are good reasons to keep the pick and also to trade it and I'm interested to hear opinions on both sides. Thx.

*sigh* So here we go again and I'll make this my last time because it's really becoming a waste of time.

Firstly, I wasn't "ridiculing" anyone and actually made a point of saying that I wasn't trying to offend Cody73 (who you refer to as "other people" when it's ONE person) but that I thought he was being shortsighted, I didn't follow it up with insults, calling him an idiot or discrediting his knowledge *ahem*, I stated my opinion...that's all we're just firmly on the opposite side of opposing views. I also wasn't alone in my opinions and I think it was KeonClark that actually said the SAME thing to Cody73 so it wasn't some wild accusation or "ridicule", we disagreed with his opinion -- that's what happens on chat forums.

Then you go on with your little spiel about how you've watched Swanigan and again try to insinuate that I haven't and that I only go by Chad Ford lol smdh...the incredible IRONY that you of all people saying someone over values their insight over others it's hilarious how you can't see that you just displayed how you're guilty of that very issue you're claiming lol by dismissing mine as just being supposedly read (despite having watched him several times) and stating yours based off a SINGLE game at that as the one a clear verdict as to why he's not higher on draft boards. Are you following how ironical it is to say someone "overvalues" their own opinion or do you need one more game to watch of Swanigan?! lol

As for supposedly comparing Swanigan's numbers to players from a previous era, are you going by the single comment where I said take a look at some of the players (with no reference to any player's name in particular) that were able to put up these numbers in college as 19 year old or the several times I did actually name drop Kevin Love who is very much of this era on the reigning champions?! You're not very good with your allegations.

As to why he's not higher on some boards, it could be any number of reasons. It could be his defence, Kevin Love's wasn't/isn't that great either or it could be that he was an overweight highschool player that wasn't very highly touted coming into college and that he's now a sophmore, Ivan Rabb was and yet he's not much further up the boards. So really who knows?!


Now hopefully we can just move on already, you think all I do is read Chad Ford or at least try to use that as an insult lol I could make it a pissing contest and rhyme off games to see if you even watched as many as I have, I have my doubts based on reading your insight on various prospects but I won't go as so far as to make your childish accusations. Instead let's just keep it moving and discuss these players and this draft as this thread intended. THX!

[The Great One]

Ivan Rabb just declared for this year's draft. I'm still a big fan of this guy. If he's there at 22 or wherever we're picking, i'd take him.

[lewro]

*sigh* So here we go again and I'll make this my last time because it's really becoming a waste of time.

Firstly, I wasn't "ridiculing" anyone and actually made a point of saying that I wasn't trying to offend Cody73 (who you refer to as "other people" when it's ONE person) but that I thought he was being shortsighted, I didn't follow it up with insults, calling him an idiot or discrediting his knowledge *ahem*, I stated my opinion...that's all we're just firmly on the opposite side of opposing views. I also wasn't alone in my opinions and I think it was KeonClark that actually said the SAME thing to Cody73 so it wasn't some wild accusation or "ridicule", we disagreed with his opinion -- that's what happens on chat forums.

Then you go on with your little spiel about how you've watched Swanigan and again try to insinuate that I haven't and that I only go by Chad Ford lol smdh...the incredible IRONY that you of all people saying someone over values their insight over others it's hilarious how you can't see that you just displayed how you're guilty of that very issue you're claiming lol by dismissing mine as just being supposedly read (despite having watched him several times) and stating yours based off a SINGLE game at that as the one a clear verdict as to why he's not higher on draft boards. Are you following how ironical it is to say someone "overvalues" their own opinion or do you need one more game to watch of Swanigan?! lol

As for supposedly comparing Swanigan's numbers to players from a previous era, are you going by the single comment where I said take a look at some of the players (with no reference to any player's name in particular) that were able to put up these numbers in college as 19 year old or the several times I did actually name drop Kevin Love who is very much of this era on the reigning champions?! You're not very good with your allegations.

As to why he's not higher on some boards, it could be any number of reasons. It could be his defence, Kevin Love's wasn't/isn't that great either or it could be that he was an overweight highschool player that wasn't very highly touted coming into college and that he's now a sophmore, Ivan Rabb was and yet he's not much further up the boards. So really who knows?!


Now hopefully we can just move on already, you think all I do is read Chad Ford or at least try to use that as an insult lol I could make it a pissing contest and rhyme off games to see if you even watched as many as I have, I have my doubts based on reading your insight on various prospects but I won't go as so far as to make your childish accusations. Instead let's just keep it moving and discuss these players and this draft as this thread intended. THX!

Lmao swanigan is the next klove. It's not just my opinion that he's on the bubble as a 1st Rd pick, EVERYONE has him there on their boards and it's been that way all yr. Love was a top prospect. Even as an average defender he had twice as many blocks as swanigan and he did it as true freshman.
Even fucking Araujo and big country put up comparable offensive stats to swanigan as sophomores with double the stls and blks respectively. Lots of big boys dominate little kids in college. That doesn't necessarily translate to the NBA. Swanigan has a legit shot and is a great rebounder. But if you can't see after one game that hes got mobility problems then you're not watching or you don't know wtf you're talking about.
Anyone can watch a mixtape/look at stats and see that the guy can shoot.
Theres gonna be some good games tonight. Hopefully I will have time to see some and maybe we can talk about the games live in the tournament thread?

[mjt20mik]

Michael Porter is asking Washington to release him. Wonder if he goes to UK or Duke.

[c-troop]

Ivan Rabb just declared for this year's draft. I'm still a big fan of this guy. If he's there at 22 or wherever we're picking, i'd take him.

Dude, i was just thinking about that ninja turtle looking bastard. i wanna see him in a raps jersey. he's got glass knees though!

[c-troop]

Michael Porter is asking Washington to release him. Wonder if he goes to UK or Duke.

whats this have to do with the draft?

[mjt20mik]

whats this have to do with the draft?

Sorry next year's draft. Don't need to be a dick about it.

[c-troop]

Sorry next year's draft. Don't need to be a dick about it.

It's okay brother, I wasn't even trying to be one. There's just already so many names to remember for this year, trying to keep it simple for the kids you know.

[blackjitsu]

My list for the Raps range is:

Tier 1
Rabb
Motely
Blossomgame
Kennard

Tier 2
Adebayo
D Brooks
Leaf
Biggie

In my dreams Jonathan Isaac falls and they move up. Those are the guys that I've watched.

Swanigan is a very nice player, but I don't see how he fits this team. Maybe he should be higher up than Leaf, but, he's a second tier prospect in the Raps range. Brooks give you more now. Adebayo would be a gamble for the future.

The guys I have in my top tier are simply better players than Swanigan. Motley could potentially play the 3 and 4 and looks NBA ready. Blossomgame sometimes rushes and needs to slow down, but he could potentially play the 3 and 4 as well. Rabb is better, and is still really young. He's shown the potential to stretch his game out to at least the mid range. Kennard very quietly had the best season of anyone on Duke, in my opinion.

I like Swanigan. Love his story. Believe that he's a legit NBA player. But the way most mock drafts are looking, I think the quality of this draft is in the back end of the first round. I really like Ball. I think he could play alongside a guy like IT and guard the bigger guard. I really like Isaac. Earlier in the season, I was definitely intrigued by Fox. That Creighton C is legit. Unfortunately, I didn't watch Kansas or Washington. That said, some of these freshman aren't that good. The value is in the back of the first round. People saying that Biggie isn't as good as other people in the Raps range isn't an insult. I'm just not buying the hype ahead of the so called top 20.

I think some of these mock drafts are going to change dramatically, or, be really wrong. That said, let's wait a bit before tearing guys down, or building them up.

[JamesNaismith]

Lmao swanigan is the next klove. It's not just my opinion that he's on the bubble as a 1st Rd pick, EVERYONE has him there on their boards and it's been that way all yr. Love was a top prospect. Even as an average defender he had twice as many blocks as swanigan and he did it as true freshman.
Even fucking Araujo and big country put up comparable offensive stats to swanigan as sophomores with double the stls and blks respectively. Lots of big boys dominate little kids in college. That doesn't necessarily translate to the NBA. Swanigan has a legit shot and is a great rebounder. But if you can't see after one game that hes got mobility problems then you're not watching or you don't know wtf you're talking about.
Anyone can watch a mixtape/look at stats and see that the guy can shoot.
Theres gonna be some good games tonight. Hopefully I will have time to see some and maybe we can talk about the games live in the tournament thread?

How about nah?! lol

You just come off as incredibly immature and your responses border on trolling. You keep reguritating the same crap about mixtapes and articles blah blah as some sort of weak/failed attempt to portray me as relying on that despite me stating several times that I've watched several games of Swanigan (which I've already told you) but you repeat so as to try and create the perception that I don't know what I'm talking about when in reality you've watched a SINGLE game of his and you suddenly think you're the expert lmao now that's truly laughable.

If you were actually having an intelligent debate with me and not trying to throw some stupid made up crap about me just watching mixes I'd certainly like to talk in game threads or whereever the hell you would like to chat because like I've said on multiple occasions I like watching prospects and it would be nice to have other posters that are following this draft as closely to discuss it with. But if you're going to continue to falsely try to prop yourself up as some expert and take every opportunity to throw out bs accusations to discredit my opinions the second you don't agree with them then no I won't be wasting time with your childish crap.

As for Swanigan I never said he WAS the next KLove but there you go with your usual nonsense of trying to put words in my mouth and utterly failing. I said his numbers as a 19 year old were comparable and that's rather indisputable. Of course they're not identical, very few players are and each will have their own strengths. Love averaged 17.5ppg and 10.6rpg and Swanigan averages 18.5ppg and 12.6rpg when you do their per 40, their numbers are very comparable and Caleb is shooting a higher 3pt% with a greater amount taken but Love takes the edge in bpg....again the word is comparable not identical, you seem to struggle with being able to differentiate the use of different words.

Then you throw in Araujo's name with no context (or perhaps you don't realize it). Araujo for starters was a year OLDER and more importantly he was doing so at BYU about the ONLY team worthy of mention in their division is Gonzaga....the other "powerhouses" over there include Pepperdine, Santa Clara, Loyola, Marymount etc.

Meanwhile Swanigan does this in a MUCH tougher division (Big 10) which includes teams like Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan State etc and goes and he won Big 10 Player of the Year at that AND is in the running for the Naismith College Player of the Year...so really it's complete joke that you thought it was even a relative comparison without realizing the context in terms of level of competition and accomplishments. Unless of course you also think Siakam's 20/10 average in New Mexico is comparible to Anthony Davis' 14/10 in UK....but better luck next time with your awesome insight, maybe you need to brush up on your youtube highlights and Chad Ford articles

Really I want to move past this condescending back and forth that we're having like I stated before and get back to discussing/debating prospects normally but obviously you're out to push buttons with your repeated "youtube" and "Chad Ford" crap lol I'm just going to ignore your posts from here on out unless you want to come down from the imaginary high horse and have some good conversation/debate about these prospects and draft.

#WEthenorth?!lol

[JamesNaismith]

Michael Porter is asking Washington to release him. Wonder if he goes to UK or Duke.

That was a great move by him!

I really think it hurt Fultz to a degree that he played in WAS. Yes I know that sounds somewhat silly given that he is projected top 2 but I think a lot of why Ball going #1 is gaining steam is that he played for a much bigger program (and Lavar having the biggest mouth in sports). But playing for a shitty program while he may have thought gave him a chance to showcase his skills actually didn't other than scoring.

Fultz can really do everything and he's very skilled especially for a 18 year old. Had he had a better team, got to showcase that in the tournament and build his image as a winner (as Ball is). I think it would have helped separate him from Lonzo a little bit. I don't think you go wrong with either and both guys could go on to be superstars but a larger stage would have built up greater buzz around him. I wonder if all of this has factored into Porter's decision, I would guess it did.

[JamesNaismith]

Ivan Rabb just declared for this year's draft. I'm still a big fan of this guy. If he's there at 22 or wherever we're picking, i'd take him.

Funny but I'm just not as hype on Rabb as I used to be last year. Of course yes new blood is always the "sexy" thing but really, when I watch him he just seems fairly average as a player. Reminds me a bit of Ed Davis in college. He's a solid player that at minimum should give you a bit of rebounding and ok defence but he's not showing a lot of new skills and tools to his game. He's showed a little glimpse of extending his range but he's not that athletic and I didn't see him dominate more in his second year as I would have hoped. I wouldn't be upset if we take him and totally does seem to fit the character and maturity of a player we would pick but I would just like to try someone with a bit more upside or a more dominant player.

My list for the Raps range is:

Tier 1
Rabb
Motely
Blossomgame
Kennard

Tier 2
Adebayo
D Brooks
Leaf
Biggie

I personally couldn't have a more different board than this one and not saying that as insult or anything, we all have our favorites but I'd be fairly disappointed if we came out with any of those names less Rabb or Swanigan. Blossomgame for me has just been totally underwhelming and looks very robotic for a SF. Reminds me a lot of KJ McDaniels who can barely stay on a team. If we're going to look at older SFs personally I'd prefer Semi Ojeleye as he looks slightly more skilled and a little younger.

I really don't like the idea of drafting Brooks, those t-rex arms are going to be a much greater problem both in getting his shot off and defending at the next level. The rest of the guys I'm just kinda meh on. The Creighton C (Patton) is one player though I definitely wouldn't mind taking a flyer on. They say big guys take longer to develop but his combination of height, athleticism and skill is pretty intriguing. Personally my dream pick remains OG Anunoby with Evans or Swanigan as back up and more "realistic" based on how we've been drafting but again I can totally see us taking Rabb if he's there.