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Who has been the 3rd best Raptor?

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  • Abbas wrote: View Post
    It's

    DeRozan
    Lowry

    Ibaka
    Tucker
    JV

    Cojo


    In that order
    Swing and a miss!
    9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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    • MY god, I hope I am just the latest victim of a massive trolling, but if any of you think JV is even close to as good of a player as Demar, your opinion is utterly irrelevant.
      SPECIAL REPORT: March 27th, 2017, it is now confirmed Lebron James has had both his back and his dignity broken by the vicious swinging right elbow of ruthless heavyweight PF and notorious bad-boy David Lee

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      • Quirk wrote: View Post
        It's pretty clear that DeMar DeRozan is the third best Raptor, and that's the problem with the team, on a great team, he would be a borderline starter / 6th man.
        Yeah you know that's actually a lot like how I think Jennifer Lawrence would totally stop dead in her tracks and start getting naked for me if we saw eachother out on the streets. About the same probability.
        SPECIAL REPORT: March 27th, 2017, it is now confirmed Lebron James has had both his back and his dignity broken by the vicious swinging right elbow of ruthless heavyweight PF and notorious bad-boy David Lee

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        • Ball wrote: View Post
          I know this is bait, but averaging 27/5/4 on nearly 47% shooting isn't a "league average starter".

          His TS is 54.8%. League average SG is 54.9%, that's close enough if you ask me.

          He scores a lot of points, because he takes a lot of shots, most of which he misses.

          It's always considered trolling or bait when you want to express a realistic assessment of DeRozan.

          I like DeRozan, the NBA is an elite league, very few players make it, let alone thrive, and he has shown he belongs, He is not however one of the league's best players, and his playing the high usage role that he plays with the Raptors is one of the main reason the Raptors are not a Championship contender.

          TS 54.8%, his slightly above average passing and average defense (at best) is not good enough for the highest usage player on a championship team.

          I hope DeRozan retires a Raptor, but I would prefer to see him in a role with far less usage, not to mention salary.

          However, it's really cool that the Raptors are a really good team, even if they are not a great team, a perenial 50 win team is something Toronto has never had, and so I plan to enjoy it.

          Lowry is the best player in the history of the team. It's unclear how long his window will be, and it seems unlikely that we will get another star that can reduce DeRozan's usage during that window, especiallyt with this coach.

          So it is what it is and DeRozan is the third best Raptor on the team, behind Lowry, the best player the team has ever had, and JV, the best center that the team has ever had, which is the question asaked by this thread.

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          • Quirk wrote: View Post
            I like DeRozan, the NBA is an elite league, very few players make it, let alone thrive, and he has shown he belongs, He is not however one of the league's best players, and his playing the high usage role that he plays with the Raptors is one of the main reason the Raptors are not a Championship contender...I hope DeRozan retires a Raptor, but I would prefer to see him in a role with far less usage, not to mention salary.
            Wow, so you are actually being serious. What a laughable comment.

            I am just going to take a step back and allow you believe whatever you so choose to, bless your heart and good luck.
            SPECIAL REPORT: March 27th, 2017, it is now confirmed Lebron James has had both his back and his dignity broken by the vicious swinging right elbow of ruthless heavyweight PF and notorious bad-boy David Lee

            Comment


            • Brian Scallabrine wrote: View Post
              Wow, so you are actually being serious. What a laughable comment.

              I am just going to take a step back and allow you believe whatever you so choose to, bless your heart and good luck.
              Yes, I'm being serious, and thems the facts, TS% don't lie. Odd, that having a realistic view of DeRozan is met with such out of hand dismissal and outright refusal to acknowledge facts.

              Were you an Iverson fan?

              http://wagesofwins.com/2012/10/08/mi...ll-time-great/

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              • Bebe's got the highest TS% on the team at 69.3%. Let's get him more shots

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                • 1. Lowry
                  2. DeRozan
                  3. Tucker

                  Comment


                  • "He is not however one of the league's best players, and his playing the high usage role that he plays with the Raptors is one of the main reason the Raptors are not a Championship contender."

                    The cohort in the op is the raps, not the entire league.

                    The fact that DeMar has such a high usage and still has a decent ts% is a positive. Tony Snell is top 5 SG in ts% but his usage is 3x less. You think we'd better with Snell at 35% usage and that his ts% would still be 60%?

                    Kobe's career ts% is 55% on 32% USG. That guy was shit too, right?

                    Quirk, I hope you bought the extended warranty on your washer/dryer bc you like to run the spin cycle on max.

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                    • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                      1. Lowry
                      2. DeRozan
                      3. Tucker
                      Ibaka is 3
                      9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                      • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                        Ibaka is 3
                        Ibaka's the obvious answer. But I can't help but wonder how much of the defensive turnaround is because of Tucker's contagious tenacity. His value goes far beyond the stat sheet. Especially considering he's got DeRozan to finally take pride in defence.

                        Not to take anything away from Iblocka though....

                        Comment


                        • I think there's a pretty clear heirarchy of Lowry, DeMar, Ibaka, then a cluster of guys who are all really important to the team in their roles. Pat, JV, Tucker. Then you've got a bunch of guys who have a lot of interchangeability - CoJo, Wright, Carroll, Powell, Poeltl, BeBe. That's probably how I'd break it down right now.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • Quirk wrote: View Post
                            His TS is 54.8%. League average SG is 54.9%, that's close enough if you ask me.

                            He scores a lot of points, because he takes a lot of shots, most of which he misses.

                            It's always considered trolling or bait when you want to express a realistic assessment of DeRozan.

                            I like DeRozan, the NBA is an elite league, very few players make it, let alone thrive, and he has shown he belongs, He is not however one of the league's best players, and his playing the high usage role that he plays with the Raptors is one of the main reason the Raptors are not a Championship contender.

                            TS 54.8%, his slightly above average passing and average defense (at best) is not good enough for the highest usage player on a championship team.

                            I hope DeRozan retires a Raptor, but I would prefer to see him in a role with far less usage, not to mention salary.

                            However, it's really cool that the Raptors are a really good team, even if they are not a great team, a perenial 50 win team is something Toronto has never had, and so I plan to enjoy it.

                            Lowry is the best player in the history of the team. It's unclear how long his window will be, and it seems unlikely that we will get another star that can reduce DeRozan's usage during that window, especiallyt with this coach.

                            So it is what it is and DeRozan is the third best Raptor on the team, behind Lowry, the best player the team has ever had, and JV, the best center that the team has ever had, which is the question asaked by this thread.
                            Context is key when looking at usage and ts percentage. Your average shooting guard doesn't have opposing defenses keying in on him every game nor does he have to carry the insane offensive load derozan does. If your average shooting guard had to do those things then your average shooting guards ts percentage would plummet. Having sky high usage and maintaining super high efficiency is what MVP candidates do and I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that derozan is MVP.

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                            • Quirk wrote: View Post
                              Yes, I'm being serious, and thems the facts, TS% don't lie. Odd, that having a realistic view of DeRozan is met with such out of hand dismissal and outright refusal to acknowledge facts.

                              Were you an Iverson fan?

                              http://wagesofwins.com/2012/10/08/mi...ll-time-great/
                              Jeez, I don't know why I'm even humouring you but TS% is not the one and only barometer of a players value. By that logic, Lucas Noguiera is literally the third best player in the NBA (out of players who have played>45 games this season)

                              Demar is a notoriously bad 3-point shooter—something his haters will seemingly never be able to stomach—and this hurts his TS%, but he is also arguably the toughest midrange cover in the game right now and gets to the FT line more(per 36) than all but 5 other players in the NBA.

                              So much information you are not considering in your assessment of his game. The sets ran for him in our offence are almost exclusively ISOs where he creates his own shot. Also, 55% is still a very good TS%, 50% is about the league average, and taking into account the lack of a solid 3-point shot and the fact that he is constantly shooting midrange fadeaway jumper in the breath of his defenders, 55% is fantastic.

                              BUT PLEASE, tell us some more about why we should reduce the role of the man whom has so gallantly carried the team on his back over the past couple weeks
                              SPECIAL REPORT: March 27th, 2017, it is now confirmed Lebron James has had both his back and his dignity broken by the vicious swinging right elbow of ruthless heavyweight PF and notorious bad-boy David Lee

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                              • Guys, you're wasting time with quirk. He's not here to have an open discussion
                                9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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