Lowe Post Podcast - Raptors Focused! 12.28.2016

[KeonClark]

Assuming the Raptors make it to the ECF but loose again maybe a new approach is needed. As constructed the strength of the team, free throws and a deep bench are season but not playoff strengths. So maybe by proving the point that the Raptors are good by making the ECF again, this summer is the time to reconstruct the team with emphases on the starters and a few roll players off the bench.

That could be a justification for going into the tax where maintenance of a "really good team" is not. Their not like the Celtics which have an incredible lottery pick plus cap space. MU really only has the trade route to make any leap forward.

Just a thought. We could be on the cusp of seeing the most interesting summer in franchise history in 2017.

Don't get me too excited. I've heard rumblings of that for 3 summers, and so far all they've produced Lou Williams, Demarre Carroll and Jarred Sullinger. Don't get me wrong I love Masai's cerebral approach but I'll only believe the 'big splash' is happening when I see it on the news

[3inthekeon]

Don't get me too excited. I've heard rumblings of that for 3 summers, and so far all they've produced Lou Williams, Demarre Carroll and Jarred Sullinger. Don't get me wrong I love Masai's cerebral approach but I'll only believe the 'big splash' is happening when I see it on the news

Would giving up the package OKC reportedly requested for Ibaka have gotten you excited? Because OKC certainly got a comparable package from Orlando. Big splash trades are costly, because if a guy is really good, there are almost always multiple bidders and the price is exorbitant.

I'm not advocating a stand pat philosophy - if MU/JW do pull the trigger I'm not going to criticize. What I am saying is that what MU has done thus far is entirely defensible.

[OakTree]

Agreed. I like what Zach said about challenging them. Koreen and Arthur basically said even if we got Millsap it probably couldn't get us past the Cavs, maybe a easier trip there and an honest 6 game series but you'd maybe have a 10 to 15% chance of winning. Then Zach basically saying "but that's the whole point of playing in the NBA in the Lebron era! To somehow get that 10 to 15% chance, or else what are you doing?"

That's what I hope ownership understands. Sure, we don't have a realistic shot here on December 29 2016, but we are a piece or 2 away from having a SHOT. You don't come this close only to take a step back this offseason..should be interesting

With the right trade, the Raptors could extend their championship window and stay under the tax.

This would be in the form of a JV/Carroll/TRoss for expirings + prospects deal.

That, I think, is the right approach.

I don't buy the argument that the Raptors need to go for a championship immediately. The team is deep and young. Even though the gap between Cleveland and Toronto seems large, it also seems to be shrinking. I see no reason why the Raptors championship odds would be less next year compared to this.

The new CBA makes it very difficult to trade superstars, and very expensive for superstars to leave in free agency. This is something that helps the Raptors, since it makes it less likely that a team behind them in the Eastern Conference is able to trade or sign their way to a championship. You think Paul George and DeMarcus Cousins are going to want out of Indiana and Sacramento now that it could cost them over $70 million each? I don't think so.

I think the Raps should be fine with nipping at the Cavs heels at least for this season, though maybe also the one after. Will a 33 year old LeBron be as dominant? 34? The end is coming for his run, it's just a matter of staying in good position for a season or two.

The timing isn't right for a championship push. Patience is the better strategy.

[KeonClark]

With the right trade, the Raptors could extend their championship window and stay under the tax.

This would be in the form of a JV/Carroll/TRoss for expirings + prospects deal.

That, I think, is the right approach.

I don't buy the argument that the Raptors need to go for a championship immediately. The team is deep and young. Even though the gap between Cleveland and Toronto seems large, it also seems to be shrinking. I see no reason why the Raptors championship odds would be less next year compared to this.

The new CBA makes it very difficult to trade superstars, and very expensive for superstars to leave in free agency. This is something that helps the Raptors, since it makes it less likely that a team behind them in the Eastern Conference is able to trade or sign their way to a championship. You think Paul George and DeMarcus Cousins are going to want out of Indiana and Sacramento now that it could cost them over $70 million each? I don't think so.

I think the Raps should be fine with nipping at the Cavs heels at least for this season, though maybe also the one after. Will a 33 year old LeBron be as dominant? 34? The end is coming for his run, it's just a matter of staying in good position for a season or two.

The timing isn't right for a championship push. Patience is the better strategy.

Don't forget that as Lebrons window closes, so does Lowrys. He is worth as basically much to us as Lebron is to them. So staying the course is a great idea, no sarcasm, but you need to also keep finding young studs like Powell etc because there's a lot of teams with young stars behind us right now.

[OakTree]

Don't forget that as Lebrons window closes, so does Lowrys. He is worth as basically much to us as Lebron is to them. So staying the course is a great idea, no sarcasm, but you need to also keep finding young studs like Powell etc because there's a lot of teams with young stars behind us right now.

The only team I worry about catching the Raps over the next couple of seasons is the Bucks. Maybe the Pistons, but I think they're more of a long shot.

The Celtics and Hornets aren't talented enough.

The Hawks, Bulls and Knicks are too old, and will probably decline.

The Pacers will have problems filling out their roster around George and Turner.

The Wizards are going the wrong way.

I don't see the top end talent on the Magic.

The Heat are going to need to rebuild, and with the new CBA it will take a while. Same with the Nets.

The 76ers have some interesting talent, but their roster is such a mess, and they're so young, it's hard to see them being relevant within the next 2-3 seasons.

Also, it's worth mentioning that the Cavs are so beyond capped out that it's only going to take one bad offseason and they won't be able to fill out their roster. Their run will probably end the same way as the Heat's. A few good players making a tonne of money, and not enough to fill out the roster.

[LJ2]

This sounds a lot like the Tank vs Anti Tank debate. Live in the matrix with the ignorance is bliss mentality and be happy we are a winning team or come to the sad realization that there is no getting past LeBron without a likely risky move which has a huge risk/reward attached to it. The last few seasons have been so enjoyable that I'm not sure which side of the debate I am on this one.

[KeonClark]

Also interesting in the podcast:

Zach Lowe mentioned that in talking to executives, the name brought up most LEAGUE WIDE not just Raptors (maybe slight hyperbole?) is Norman Powell. (Is he available? What would they want?)

I've heard it bandied about here that he's kind of a well kept secret. Not true. This league is too heavily scouted. EVERYBODY knows that Powell is really good, and has huge potential if unleashed. They also knows he's currently our 10th man (which is stupid, but that's a story for another day). Looks like he has more trade value than a Ross or a JV fwiw

[KeonClark]

All 3 guys also basically mocked Bruno, and said he's pretty bad, even in D League games where he scores scouts say he's pretty bad. Also said the Raptors will coach the hell out of him for one more year after this to try and make him a rotation player, and still defended Masai taking a swing for the fences.

[Demographic Shift]

I had to stop after listening to them drag on about Drake, Jennifer Lopez, and what movies they watched on Christmas. Koreen's voice is nails on chalkboard without having to suffer through pop gossip.

Some people have a face for radio and unfortunately for the articulate, entertaining and insightful Eric Koreen.. he has a voice for print.

[Scraptor]

Would giving up the package OKC reportedly requested for Ibaka have gotten you excited? Because OKC certainly got a comparable package from Orlando. Big splash trades are costly, because if a guy is really good, there are almost always multiple bidders and the price is exorbitant.

I'm not advocating a stand pat philosophy - if MU/JW do pull the trigger I'm not going to criticize. What I am saying is that what MU has done thus far is entirely defensible.

If you never take any risks, you can never be criticized. That's why it's interesting that Lowe suggested Masai is overly cautious and likes to really win every trade.

We thought last summer might be time to make a move--remember how much talk there was about the Knicks pick?--and ultimately we ended up with a third string center and more depth. Or as they put it on the podcast, a bunch of young players who don't play.

At some point, if we don't consolidate these assets, they will lose their value (note their discussion of Bruno) and we will be running in place.

[slaw]

This sounds a lot like the Tank vs Anti Tank debate. Live in the matrix with the ignorance is bliss mentality and be happy we are a winning team or come to the sad realization that there is no getting past LeBron without a likely risky move which has a huge risk/reward attached to it. The last few seasons have been so enjoyable that I'm not sure which side of the debate I am on this one.

I'm definitely in the go for it now camp. You've got a prime Lowry, a prime Derozan and those two guys are good enough to get you ~55 wins. Raps have 3 young centres, two young scorers off the bench (Ross and Powell) and guys like Siakam, Wright and Joseph and even Van Vleet, not to mention two more picks this season. There's lots of depth to weather a big trade and I have lots of confidence that this front office can rebuild the depth given their track record with guys like Powell, Siakam, Wright and Poeltl.

These windows are small. Remember how the Pacers took Miami to the mats in the ECF two years in a row? Look at them now.

Now, I have no idea how they get 'the guy' but I'd love to see it even if it means sacrificing some good players.

[LJ2]

I'm definitely in the go for it now camp. You've got a prime Lowry, a prime Derozan and those two guys are good enough to get you ~55 wins. Raps have 3 young centres, two young scorers off the bench (Ross and Powell) and guys like Siakam, Wright and Joseph and even Van Vleet, not to mention two more picks this season. There's lots of depth to weather a big trade and I have lots of confidence that this front office can rebuild the depth given their track record with guys like Powell, Siakam, Wright and Poeltl.

These windows are small. Remember how the Pacers took Miami to the mats in the ECF two years in a row? Look at them now.

Now, I have no idea how they get 'the guy' but I'd love to see it even if it means sacrificing some good players.

I'm with you for the most part. Memories of how bad we were still linger, but the reality is that without the mega star like LeBron, Duncan, Durrant you don't have a continual window to try and tweak your roster around said mega star. The window to dethrone the Cav's is right now at it's most wide open point.

[Lupe]

I'm definitely in the go for it now camp. You've got a prime Lowry, a prime Derozan and those two guys are good enough to get you ~55 wins. Raps have 3 young centres, two young scorers off the bench (Ross and Powell) and guys like Siakam, Wright and Joseph and even Van Vleet, not to mention two more picks this season. There's lots of depth to weather a big trade and I have lots of confidence that this front office can rebuild the depth given their track record with guys like Powell, Siakam, Wright and Poeltl.

These windows are small. Remember how the Pacers took Miami to the mats in the ECF two years in a row? Look at them now.

Now, I have no idea how they get 'the guy' but I'd love to see it even if it means sacrificing some good players.

Yep, outside of DeMar and Lowry everyone really should be on the table to try and get that third guy to take us over the top and give us a real chance at Cleveland. Like you said though, tough to see what that move would actually be though.

[3inthekeon]

I'm definitely in the go for it now camp. You've got a prime Lowry, a prime Derozan and those two guys are good enough to get you ~55 wins. Raps have 3 young centres, two young scorers off the bench (Ross and Powell) and guys like Siakam, Wright and Joseph and even Van Vleet, not to mention two more picks this season. There's lots of depth to weather a big trade and I have lots of confidence that this front office can rebuild the depth given their track record with guys like Powell, Siakam, Wright and Poeltl.

These windows are small. Remember how the Pacers took Miami to the mats in the ECF two years in a row? Look at them now.

Now, I have no idea how they get 'the guy' but I'd love to see it even if it means sacrificing some good players.

What exactly is "it"?

a) To be the odds on favourite to win the NBA title?

b) To increase our title chances from ~10% to ~20%?

We could partially mortgage our future to get to b). Milsap might do that.

I don't even know if it's possible to get to a). We'd have to upgrade significantly in a number of areas. And be prepared for a huge crash before Lowry's next contract is done, maybe even half done.

[Demographic Shift]

I'm definitely in the go for it now camp. You've got a prime Lowry, a prime Derozan and those two guys are good enough to get you ~55 wins. Raps have 3 young centres, two young scorers off the bench (Ross and Powell) and guys like Siakam, Wright and Joseph and even Van Vleet, not to mention two more picks this season. There's lots of depth to weather a big trade and I have lots of confidence that this front office can rebuild the depth given their track record with guys like Powell, Siakam, Wright and Poeltl.

These windows are small. Remember how the Pacers took Miami to the mats in the ECF two years in a row? Look at them now.

Now, I have no idea how they get 'the guy' but I'd love to see it even if it means sacrificing some good players.

Yep, outside of DeMar and Lowry everyone really should be on the table to try and get that third guy to take us over the top and give us a real chance at Cleveland. Like you said though, tough to see what that move would actually be though.

Agree.....Raps are the embodiment of the old football coach George Allen's quote "The future is now".

While it is possible for some level of incremental improvement from Lowry and Derozan its pretty safe to say this is as good as they are going to be.... they might be this good again next year and possibly the one following but there is the issue of Lowry's free agency after the season concludes. So without that Sword of Damocles hanging over his head this season, Ujiri owes to it DD and KL, to Casey and his staff and the franchise to take the shot to win now.

I still think the front office will want to road test Sullinger to see what can be contribute in the teams scheme and see if what he brings to the party free's up a player to add to the mix of available talent to trade. Raps have a lot of young, really good ready to play now players and all their first round draft picks plus an extra this year as currency to vie for an impact player.

As the schedule grinds on and seasons outcomes are becoming clearer there is talent available.

C - Cousins, Brook Lopez, Hassan Whiteside
PF - Paul Milsap Serge Ibalka
SF - would Carmello agree to a trade for a chance to win ? would Larry Legend trade his star Paul George to jump start a rebuild ?

Hope we find out....