Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 58

Thread: Lowe Post Podcast - Raptors Focused! 12.28.2016

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,813
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    This sounds a lot like the Tank vs Anti Tank debate. Live in the matrix with the ignorance is bliss mentality and be happy we are a winning team or come to the sad realization that there is no getting past LeBron without a likely risky move which has a huge risk/reward attached to it. The last few seasons have been so enjoyable that I'm not sure which side of the debate I am on this one.

  2. Like Raptor Jesus liked this post
  3. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran KeonClark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    9,658
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Also interesting in the podcast:

    Zach Lowe mentioned that in talking to executives, the name brought up most LEAGUE WIDE not just Raptors (maybe slight hyperbole?) is Norman Powell. (Is he available? What would they want?)

    I've heard it bandied about here that he's kind of a well kept secret. Not true. This league is too heavily scouted. EVERYBODY knows that Powell is really good, and has huge potential if unleashed. They also knows he's currently our 10th man (which is stupid, but that's a story for another day). Looks like he has more trade value than a Ross or a JV fwiw
    11/20/16 Lest we forget - The Sacramento Screw Job.
    We will not go quietly in the night. We will rage against the dying light. We will study every buzzer beater with intensified might, because somethin with the NBA doesn't smell right.

  4. #23
    Raptors Republic Veteran KeonClark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    9,658
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    All 3 guys also basically mocked Bruno, and said he's pretty bad, even in D League games where he scores scouts say he's pretty bad. Also said the Raptors will coach the hell out of him for one more year after this to try and make him a rotation player, and still defended Masai taking a swing for the fences.
    11/20/16 Lest we forget - The Sacramento Screw Job.
    We will not go quietly in the night. We will rage against the dying light. We will study every buzzer beater with intensified might, because somethin with the NBA doesn't smell right.

  5. #24
    Raptors Republic Veteran Demographic Shift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,338
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I had to stop after listening to them drag on about Drake, Jennifer Lopez, and what movies they watched on Christmas. Koreen's voice is nails on chalkboard without having to suffer through pop gossip.
    Some people have a face for radio and unfortunately for the articulate, entertaining and insightful Eric Koreen.. he has a voice for print.

  6. #25
    Raptors Republic Veteran Scraptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    5,290
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    Would giving up the package OKC reportedly requested for Ibaka have gotten you excited? Because OKC certainly got a comparable package from Orlando. Big splash trades are costly, because if a guy is really good, there are almost always multiple bidders and the price is exorbitant.

    I'm not advocating a stand pat philosophy - if MU/JW do pull the trigger I'm not going to criticize. What I am saying is that what MU has done thus far is entirely defensible.

    If you never take any risks, you can never be criticized. That's why it's interesting that Lowe suggested Masai is overly cautious and likes to really win every trade.

    We thought last summer might be time to make a move--remember how much talk there was about the Knicks pick?--and ultimately we ended up with a third string center and more depth. Or as they put it on the podcast, a bunch of young players who don't play.

    At some point, if we don't consolidate these assets, they will lose their value (note their discussion of Bruno) and we will be running in place.

  7. Like Fully liked this post
  8. #26
    Raptors Republic Superstar slaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    4,728
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote LJ2 wrote: View Post
    This sounds a lot like the Tank vs Anti Tank debate. Live in the matrix with the ignorance is bliss mentality and be happy we are a winning team or come to the sad realization that there is no getting past LeBron without a likely risky move which has a huge risk/reward attached to it. The last few seasons have been so enjoyable that I'm not sure which side of the debate I am on this one.
    I'm definitely in the go for it now camp. You've got a prime Lowry, a prime Derozan and those two guys are good enough to get you ~55 wins. Raps have 3 young centres, two young scorers off the bench (Ross and Powell) and guys like Siakam, Wright and Joseph and even Van Vleet, not to mention two more picks this season. There's lots of depth to weather a big trade and I have lots of confidence that this front office can rebuild the depth given their track record with guys like Powell, Siakam, Wright and Poeltl.

    These windows are small. Remember how the Pacers took Miami to the mats in the ECF two years in a row? Look at them now.

    Now, I have no idea how they get 'the guy' but I'd love to see it even if it means sacrificing some good players.

  9. Like Fully, Lupe liked this post
  10. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,813
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I'm definitely in the go for it now camp. You've got a prime Lowry, a prime Derozan and those two guys are good enough to get you ~55 wins. Raps have 3 young centres, two young scorers off the bench (Ross and Powell) and guys like Siakam, Wright and Joseph and even Van Vleet, not to mention two more picks this season. There's lots of depth to weather a big trade and I have lots of confidence that this front office can rebuild the depth given their track record with guys like Powell, Siakam, Wright and Poeltl.

    These windows are small. Remember how the Pacers took Miami to the mats in the ECF two years in a row? Look at them now.

    Now, I have no idea how they get 'the guy' but I'd love to see it even if it means sacrificing some good players.
    I'm with you for the most part. Memories of how bad we were still linger, but the reality is that without the mega star like LeBron, Duncan, Durrant you don't have a continual window to try and tweak your roster around said mega star. The window to dethrone the Cav's is right now at it's most wide open point.

  11. #28
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I'm definitely in the go for it now camp. You've got a prime Lowry, a prime Derozan and those two guys are good enough to get you ~55 wins. Raps have 3 young centres, two young scorers off the bench (Ross and Powell) and guys like Siakam, Wright and Joseph and even Van Vleet, not to mention two more picks this season. There's lots of depth to weather a big trade and I have lots of confidence that this front office can rebuild the depth given their track record with guys like Powell, Siakam, Wright and Poeltl.

    These windows are small. Remember how the Pacers took Miami to the mats in the ECF two years in a row? Look at them now.

    Now, I have no idea how they get 'the guy' but I'd love to see it even if it means sacrificing some good players.
    Yep, outside of DeMar and Lowry everyone really should be on the table to try and get that third guy to take us over the top and give us a real chance at Cleveland. Like you said though, tough to see what that move would actually be though.

  12. #29
    Raptors Republic Superstar 3inthekeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,441
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I'm definitely in the go for it now camp. You've got a prime Lowry, a prime Derozan and those two guys are good enough to get you ~55 wins. Raps have 3 young centres, two young scorers off the bench (Ross and Powell) and guys like Siakam, Wright and Joseph and even Van Vleet, not to mention two more picks this season. There's lots of depth to weather a big trade and I have lots of confidence that this front office can rebuild the depth given their track record with guys like Powell, Siakam, Wright and Poeltl.

    These windows are small. Remember how the Pacers took Miami to the mats in the ECF two years in a row? Look at them now.

    Now, I have no idea how they get 'the guy' but I'd love to see it even if it means sacrificing some good players.
    What exactly is "it"?

    a) To be the odds on favourite to win the NBA title?

    b) To increase our title chances from ~10% to ~20%?

    We could partially mortgage our future to get to b). Milsap might do that.

    I don't even know if it's possible to get to a). We'd have to upgrade significantly in a number of areas. And be prepared for a huge crash before Lowry's next contract is done, maybe even half done.
    If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

  13. #30
    Raptors Republic Veteran Demographic Shift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,338
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I'm definitely in the go for it now camp. You've got a prime Lowry, a prime Derozan and those two guys are good enough to get you ~55 wins. Raps have 3 young centres, two young scorers off the bench (Ross and Powell) and guys like Siakam, Wright and Joseph and even Van Vleet, not to mention two more picks this season. There's lots of depth to weather a big trade and I have lots of confidence that this front office can rebuild the depth given their track record with guys like Powell, Siakam, Wright and Poeltl.

    These windows are small. Remember how the Pacers took Miami to the mats in the ECF two years in a row? Look at them now.

    Now, I have no idea how they get 'the guy' but I'd love to see it even if it means sacrificing some good players.
    Quote Lupe wrote: View Post
    Yep, outside of DeMar and Lowry everyone really should be on the table to try and get that third guy to take us over the top and give us a real chance at Cleveland. Like you said though, tough to see what that move would actually be though.
    Agree.....Raps are the embodiment of the old football coach George Allen's quote "The future is now".

    While it is possible for some level of incremental improvement from Lowry and Derozan its pretty safe to say this is as good as they are going to be.... they might be this good again next year and possibly the one following but there is the issue of Lowry's free agency after the season concludes. So without that Sword of Damocles hanging over his head this season, Ujiri owes to it DD and KL, to Casey and his staff and the franchise to take the shot to win now.

    I still think the front office will want to road test Sullinger to see what can be contribute in the teams scheme and see if what he brings to the party free's up a player to add to the mix of available talent to trade. Raps have a lot of young, really good ready to play now players and all their first round draft picks plus an extra this year as currency to vie for an impact player.

    As the schedule grinds on and seasons outcomes are becoming clearer there is talent available.

    C - Cousins, Brook Lopez, Hassan Whiteside
    PF - Paul Milsap Serge Ibalka
    SF - would Carmello agree to a trade for a chance to win ? would Larry Legend trade his star Paul George to jump start a rebuild ?

    Hope we find out....
    Last edited by Demographic Shift; Thu Dec 29th, 2016 at 03:23 PM.

  14. #31
    Raptors Republic Superstar SkywalkerAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    3,965
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Don't forget to vote the easiest way (through Google): https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=...A+Vote+raptors

  15. #32
    Raptors Republic Superstar slaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    4,728
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    What exactly is "it"?

    a) To be the odds on favourite to win the NBA title?

    b) To increase our title chances from ~10% to ~20%?

    We could partially mortgage our future to get to b). Milsap might do that.

    I don't even know if it's possible to get to a). We'd have to upgrade significantly in a number of areas. And be prepared for a huge crash before Lowry's next contract is done, maybe even half done.
    "It" is win a championship. You don't need to be the 'odds on favourite' or have a specific percentage chance (not even sure what that means) you just need to be one of the teams with a realistic chance. Right now, only two teams have that and Toronto isn't one of them (the Spurs and Clips are in the same boat as Toronto).

    As for the rest, I have no problem mortgaging the future and I have no problem if being a legit title contender for two or three years results in a massive crash afterwards. That's the cycle of life in sports.

    Again, this isn't an explanation of how to do it or what all the options might be or a question of if it's even possible. It's simply my opinion that the organization should be prepared to go all out to win right now, this year and next and do whatever it takes to make that happen. Personally, I would support that move even if it meant mortgaging the future and risking a collapse. If a trade can't be done then it can't be done but if the rationale for not doing something is that the front office is looking 5 years down the road or ownership doesn't want to spend or they are that risk adverse, then that would be a disappointment from my perspective.

  16. Like RDV liked this post
  17. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran iblastoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    5,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I'm definitely in the go for it now camp. You've got a prime Lowry, a prime Derozan and those two guys are good enough to get you ~55 wins. Raps have 3 young centres, two young scorers off the bench (Ross and Powell) and guys like Siakam, Wright and Joseph and even Van Vleet, not to mention two more picks this season. There's lots of depth to weather a big trade and I have lots of confidence that this front office can rebuild the depth given their track record with guys like Powell, Siakam, Wright and Poeltl.

    These windows are small. Remember how the Pacers took Miami to the mats in the ECF two years in a row? Look at them now.

    Now, I have no idea how they get 'the guy' but I'd love to see it even if it means sacrificing some good players.
    well to be fair, pacers also lost their main player for a whole year due to that terrible injury. imagine if this team lost kyle or demar for an entire season?

  18. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,746
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    If you never take any risks, you can never be criticized. That's why it's interesting that Lowe suggested Masai is overly cautious and likes to really win every trade.

    We thought last summer might be time to make a move--remember how much talk there was about the Knicks pick?--and ultimately we ended up with a third string center and more depth. Or as they put it on the podcast, a bunch of young players who don't play.

    At some point, if we don't consolidate these assets, they will lose their value (note their discussion of Bruno) and we will be running in place.
    Agreed. It doesn't take very long in some instances for the value of an asset to diminish greatly or disappear altogether. The #9 overall pick in the NBA draft is a very good asset to start a trade package around, but when it morphs into Jakob Poeltl on the end of the Raptors bench 6 months later... not so much. I view both first round picks that the Raptors hold this year the same way - they hold more value now as "First Round picks" than they will in July when they become more D-League affiliates for the Raps.

    And I never thought that Bruno was some amazing trade piece by any means, but when you hear Lowe et al questioning whether he'll get another contract in the NBA after this one, you realize that the time to dangle him based on his immense potential has now come and gone. He's basically the same player in year three as he was in year one, and appears now to be value-less in a trade.

    I'd be okay with packaging some of the accumulated depth, draft assets, or even a guy like JV for a shot at a player that will increase our odds of beating the Cavaliers. With the D League affiliate and Masai's track record of finding serviceable rotation players in the latter stages of the draft, I think that depth can be re-stocked pretty quickly. However we will find it very difficult to find another true impact player to add to Lowry/DeRozan unless it's via trade.

  19. Like Lupe liked this post
  20. #35
    Raptors Republic Superstar 3inthekeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,441
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    "It" is win a championship. You don't need to be the 'odds on favourite' or have a specific percentage chance (not even sure what that means) you just need to be one of the teams with a realistic chance. Right now, only two teams have that and Toronto isn't one of them (the Spurs and Clips are in the same boat as Toronto).

    As for the rest, I have no problem mortgaging the future and I have no problem if being a legit title contender for two or three years results in a massive crash afterwards. That's the cycle of life in sports.

    Again, this isn't an explanation of how to do it or what all the options might be or a question of if it's even possible. It's simply my opinion that the organization should be prepared to go all out to win right now, this year and next and do whatever it takes to make that happen. Personally, I would support that move even if it meant mortgaging the future and risking a collapse. If a trade can't be done then it can't be done but if the rationale for not doing something is that the front office is looking 5 years down the road or ownership doesn't want to spend or they are that risk adverse, then that would be a disappointment from my perspective.
    Ninefiftyeight has us with about a 10% chance at winning the title. IIRC, Lowe said with Millsap it would be around a 20% chance.

    Personally I'd be happy with an upgrade trade but only disappointed if Sully proves a poor ineffective fit (not much of an upgrade on Pascal) and Masai stands pat.
    If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

  21. #36
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    312
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Agreed.
    I think the Lowry + Pat contract will force us to let go of somebody go, I do not remember quite the names (CoJo, Carroll, JV....)


    Quote RDV wrote: View Post
    Assuming the Raptors make it to the ECF but loose again maybe a new approach is needed. As constructed the strength of the team, free throws and a deep bench are season but not playoff strengths. So maybe by proving the point that the Raptors are good by making the ECF again, this summer is the time to reconstruct the team with emphases on the starters and a few roll players off the bench.

    That could be a justification for going into the tax where maintenance of a "really good team" is not. Their not like the Celtics which have an incredible lottery pick plus cap space. MU really only has the trade route to make any leap forward.

    Just a thought. We could be on the cusp of seeing the most interesting summer in franchise history in 2017.

  22. #37
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    312
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    There is a high risk that Sully will end up a poor fit, but it will not be omnipresent in the regular season.
    Think about this, You got a starting 5 with only ONE shooter (keep in mind that the guy with the ball is usually guarded).
    Again, in the regular season, it will be fine, because it is hard to do worst than Scola, unless Sully cannot even do the an 'Amir' type of 3 pt shooting, ...then we have an issue.

    Quote 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    Ninefiftyeight has us with about a 10% chance at winning the title. IIRC, Lowe said with Millsap it would be around a 20% chance.

    Personally I'd be happy with an upgrade trade but only disappointed if Sully proves a poor ineffective fit (not much of an upgrade on Pascal) and Masai stands pat.

  23. #38
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    312
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Nope.
    Just the bucks. Jabari is really start to look like the 2nd overall pick. We also forgot that Middleton is injured and he is a game changer for them. They have a VERY YOUNG BIG 3 , and they are all very good NOW and are nowhere near their ceiling.
    If Henson can become a force inside = WATCH OUT. !

    Quote OakTree wrote: View Post
    The only team I worry about catching the Raps over the next couple of seasons is the Bucks. Maybe the Pistons, but I think they're more of a long shot.

    The Celtics and Hornets aren't talented enough.

    The Hawks, Bulls and Knicks are too old, and will probably decline.

    The Pacers will have problems filling out their roster around George and Turner.

    The Wizards are going the wrong way.

    I don't see the top end talent on the Magic.

    The Heat are going to need to rebuild, and with the new CBA it will take a while. Same with the Nets.

    The 76ers have some interesting talent, but their roster is such a mess, and they're so young, it's hard to see them being relevant within the next 2-3 seasons.

    Also, it's worth mentioning that the Cavs are so beyond capped out that it's only going to take one bad offseason and they won't be able to fill out their roster. Their run will probably end the same way as the Heat's. A few good players making a tonne of money, and not enough to fill out the roster.

  24. #39
    Raptors Republic Rookie meductic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    meductic
    Posts
    111
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I might be off on this but when trading for the best player on another team in the category of PG or Milsap, and to a lesser extent Cousins or Whiteside, it would seem to me that the return would have to be at least one of our 2 top players. Otherwise don't you just go directly to Boston or Philly to start working on the future. I mean you are not trading PG for Powell or Ross, and I don't think we can trade them both even if it could work. Well for PG maybe. But to get a third difference maker we will probably have to give up a difference maker, and according to those advocating this route that player is neither JV or Carroll, and not Patterson without major pieces. Otherwise I am sure Masai spends 24 hours a day trying to figure out how to get around how to get the third piece without making the team worse. At least Noel is somewhat more realistic and intriguing on the trade end, the dispute there being more over what you are getting, and do you really want to have to deal with 3 free agent bigs next year after giving Lowry the max?

  25. #40
    Raptors Republic Rookie meductic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    meductic
    Posts
    111
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    ... don't get me wrong, I still am and will continue to be a big advocate of Masai getting a few of those aging machine things.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •