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do you agree with Jack Armstrong about a lack of a physical presence?

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  • do you agree with Jack Armstrong about a lack of a physical presence?

    With the loss of biz, JJ and scola Jack thinks we need to add some toughness. Do you agree Bebe has been a pleasant surprise for me but does not replace's biz's toughness although he is equal in rim protection and a better passer by far. Scola just deteriorated to being a liability after a better than expected start so I do not view him as a loss.JJ seems to be doing well with the heat. Do you think our young bigs are going to be intimidated when the games count more? Does Sully alleviate some of this issue?

  • #2
    It made sense last night, when DeRozan, Ross or Powell were often playing the PF spot. JV was often getting double and triple teamed on the glass offensively, with no additional inside help (to help the helper - JV) defensively.

    I don't think 'physical presence' necessarily needs to equate to toughness or rim protection, as last night it was purely a size/strength issue that Philly exploited wonderfully. In a morbid way, it was refreshing to see a coach exploit a mismatch over and over and over.

    In general, I think being undersized is an issue for the Raptors, but that seems to be by design to fit the Casey/DeRozan/Lowry core.

    C - JV is the only legit C, while all the others are physically undersized. Bebe has height/reach for blocks, but easily gets steamrolled by the few traditional low-post C's. When the Raps go small, Sullinger/Patterson/Poeltl/Siakam are all significantly undersized in one way or another.

    PF - The Raps have good size here, so long as the PFs aren't playing C. Again, when they go small, they become undersized whenever a wing is asked to play the 4.

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    • #3
      rightsideup wrote: View Post
      With the loss of biz, JJ and scola Jack thinks we need to add some toughness. Do you agree Bebe has been a pleasant surprise for me but does not replace's biz's toughness although he is equal in rim protection and a better passer by far. Scola just deteriorated to being a liability after a better than expected start so I do not view him as a loss.JJ seems to be doing well with the heat. Do you think our young bigs are going to be intimidated when the games count more? Does Sully alleviate some of this issue?
      Yes, Yes & No.

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      • #4
        Not concerned at all. When PP, BeBe and Sully are all there in the front court to help JV out, we'll be much better in the paint and on the boards, and our guards are of the more physical variety already (with Carroll and Norm being in your face defenders, and DD and Lowry about as aggressive physically on the offensive end as possible).
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • #5
          Scola sucked, JJ never played, and I think toughness in this sense is a bit overrated. Yes, in a sense Biz is tougher than Bebe, but as the game plays out on the court does it matter or are we just talking about yelling, waving arms, and getting the crowd psyched? Biz wasn't intimidating anyone in the lane like Patrick Ewing in the 90's or even like a Gobert in today's NBA. Bebe likely has as much or more "shot intimidation" than Biz due to his ridiculously long arms. Siakam is a shotblocking energy forward off the bench that the team didn't have last year, between him and Bebe how much of Biz is really missing?

          Last year's team gutted out some wins but this year's team can too, there are too many players on the roster who play that way (Lowry chief among them) to lose it just because a bench player is gone. But PF is their biggest area of need and now due to injuries it's thinner than ever, so yes call it what you want - they lack rebounding, shot blocking, lane intimidation, or whatever when they're playing guards at the 4 spot but it's not because the toughness is gone, it's because they're currently very thin at the thinnest position on the roster. They just need more talent there, plain and simple. Sully will help some.
          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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          • #6
            We can't judge the frontcourt based on a game where 2Pat and Bebe were hurt, Carroll left the game hurt and Sullinger was playing his first game of the season. We just need to get everyone healthy and Sully integrated comfortably into the rotation.
            The name's Bond, James Bond.

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            • #7
              DanH wrote: View Post
              Not concerned at all. When PP, BeBe and Sully are all there in the front court to help JV out, we'll be much better in the paint and on the boards, and our guards are of the more physical variety already (with Carroll and Norm being in your face defenders, and DD and Lowry about as aggressive physically on the offensive end as possible).
              I agree. We haven't been fully healthy all season at any of the big positions. When we are fully healthy I think we will be fine. One of Sully, Pat, and Bebe have been injured throughout this season so far and now our small ball 4 is injured as well. We can't judge much yet.
              I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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              • #8
                With Sully back I really like our stable of bigs.

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                • #9
                  Jared Sullinger is practically two physical presences.

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                  • #10
                    Scraptor wrote: View Post
                    Jared Sullinger is practically two physical presences.

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                    • #11
                      mostly concerned with the lack of physical presence in terms of boxing out. i.e. only one guy on our team actually does it (2 if you count Sully now that he's back).

                      That's just lazy

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                      • #12
                        I'm not sure how Armstrong meant it as I didn't hear him say it, but when I think lack of toughness, I think lack of an Oakley type player that other players know if they take a run at the rim they may get put on their ass. Someone who you think twice before trying to punk. Biz provided that, and I think Sully can provide that as well. JV's elbows are known league wide now, but not sure he gets the "respect" or fear from other players as he's not exactly known as a fighter.

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                        • #13
                          LJ2 wrote: View Post
                          I'm not sure how Armstrong meant it as I didn't hear him say it, but when I think lack of toughness, I think lack of an Oakley type player that other players know if they take a run at the rim they may get put on their ass. Someone who you think twice before trying to punk. Biz provided that, and I think Sully can provide that as well. JV's elbows are known league wide now, but not sure he gets the "respect" or fear from other players as he's not exactly known as a fighter.
                          The lack of Oakley-type toughness is more of a league-wide trend, rather than a specific problem of the Raptors.

                          Oakley used to chop guys across the forearms that would leave bruises for days. But those "good, hard fouls" don't exist anymore. Only flagrant 1s.

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                          • #14
                            It was actually the one issue I was concerned about when BB left. For me, the single biggest reason outside of talent that the Raps are successful is because they are a very, very resilient team that is always tough to play against. A big part of that last year was that they beat opponents up in the paint on both ends for 4 quarters and wore them down. Having to fight with JV and then Biyombo for 48 minutes was too tough.

                            Bebe doesn't bring the same level that JV and BB did last year. That's not really his game - he seems like more of a complimentary big to a guy like JV than a substitute. Poeltl look like he will eventually get there but he's still just a rookie. Hopefully, having both Sullinger and Patterson healthy will alleviate a lot of the issue.

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                            • #15
                              I don't believe there are Oakley-type players in the league anymore. There maybe some sneaky types but not the consistent intheface Oakley type (Draymond Green maybe). I just read lately that after all these years he wants to duke it out with Chucky Barkley. Haha. He's a grudge fiend too!

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