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Thread: Everything Serge Ibaka

  1. #941
    Raptors Republic Superstar S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    You're almost as angry as Ibaka these days.

    Anyways, good news: career high TS%.

    Bad news: career low reb%, stl%, and blk%.
    He really, really looks like a guy who just wants to stand outside and shoot jumpshots. I hope he's not coasting bc he got paid.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    He really, really looks like a guy who just wants to stand outside and shoot jumpshots. I hope he's not coasting bc he got paid.
    I'm sure in a couple years we can trade him and a first to Brooklyn, no biggie
    11/20/16 Lest we forget - The Sacramento Screw Job.
    We will not go quietly in the night. We will rage against the dying light. We will study every buzzer beater with intensified might, because somethin with the NBA doesn't smell right.

  3. #943
    Raptors Republic Superstar S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I'm sure in a couple years we can trade him and a first to Brooklyn, no biggie
    Bah, end of next year we can trade the whole core to Brooklyn for a handful of unprotected firsts. Does the oligarch still do that?

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    Raptors Republic Starter GOLDBLUM's Avatar
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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    He really, really looks like a guy who just wants to stand outside and shoot jumpshots. I hope he's not coasting bc he got paid.
    He is playing most of his minutes with JV. He has to stay on the perimeter for spacing purposes. You wont get the most out of him if your just playing him at PF. His value comes from being able to play both positions. How do you expect him to rebound from the 3pt line? When plays C you more variety in his game. Gives you rebounds, block shots and 3s. At PF just gives you 3s.
    @Chr1st1anL

  6. #946
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    He is playing most of his minutes with JV. He has to stay on the perimeter for spacing purposes. You wont get the most out of him if your just playing him at PF. His value comes from being able to play both positions. How do you expect him to rebound from the 3pt line? When plays C you more variety in his game. Gives you rebounds, block shots and 3s. At PF just gives you 3s.
    Serge's rebounding is fine this year, he's rebounding defensively about as well as he ever has, and does so at roughly the same rate whether he's a PF or C (which is bad when he is playing C, but perfectly fine when he's at the 4).

    It's his offensive rebounding that has taken a hit, and it's worse when he plays C than when he plays PF. But we don't really need offensive rebounding from him if he is at PF where he should be - JV and Poeltl can take care of that. It's a problem for us when he is playing C, though.

    Same goes for his block rate. He's currently posting a 1.2 blocks per 36 rate, which is a career low. In his minutes as a C, he's posting a 1.5 blocks per 36 rate, which would be... a career low. Not that I put a lot of stock in blocks as a defensive stat. Meanwhile he literally hasn't registered a single steal in his (thankfully limited) minutes at C this year.

    Not that any of that matters - lineups with him at C are doing well, mostly because they've been used sparingly and against the right matchups so far, but still credit goes to him being able to anchor small ball lineups against similar opposition and have success. My concern with Serge is that against most competition he can't play C, so he needs to bring energy and smarts at the least in his time at the 4, and even if his block rates, rebounds and steals are down, he can still be far better defensively there than he's shown.

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  8. #947
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mess's Avatar
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    Quote GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
    His Per 100 Poss stats aren't all that better than his 2 years in Toronto. But Brooklyn plays at a crazy pace (109.24 vs 97.11 for last year's Raps).

    But Per 100 Poss, he's getting 1 more shot a game, but shooting more 2 pt shots because he can actually run and cut now. Career high FTr too. So he is fitting better into their system but his stats are inflated by their pace. He's also rebounding better - mostly cause I have no idea who Brooklyn is playing at C besides Mozgov. T.Booker is their leading rebounder.
    Two beer away from being two beers away.

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    I'm sorry but all evidence points to Ibaka being better at the 5 than the 4. And if he IS at the 4, he really needs to be next to somebody who's mobile or you have a very sluggish frontcourt.

    We now have Orlando and OKC data, data from the end of last season where Ibaka-JV lineups were mediocre while 2Pat-Ibaka and Tucker (at the 4)-Ibaka lineups were great. And data from this year as well. Even when this inevitably remains true at the 20 game arbitrary mark that has been set by DanH, the narrative is not going to switch to moving JV to the bench or dealing him in a trade even though it should.

    I'm just going to bide my time and wait for people to come around on this, because the evidence will just continue to build. There's a problem starting the 2 of them together, especially on the defensive end. We're effectively starting 2 centers, neither of whom is particularly mobile.

  10. #949
    Raptors Republic Superstar SkywalkerAC's Avatar
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    Definitely a "sometimes you love him, sometimes you hate him" kinda guy. Being less reliant on screen-assists opens up the opportunity of him playing more at the 5.

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    Quote Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry but all evidence points to Ibaka being better at the 5 than the 4. And if he IS at the 4, he really needs to be next to somebody who's mobile or you have a very sluggish frontcourt.

    We now have Orlando and OKC data, data from the end of last season where Ibaka-JV lineups were mediocre while 2Pat-Ibaka and Tucker (at the 4)-Ibaka lineups were great. And data from this year as well. Even when this inevitably remains true at the 20 game arbitrary mark that has been set by DanH, the narrative is not going to switch to moving JV to the bench or dealing him in a trade even though it should.

    I'm just going to bide my time and wait for people to come around on this, because the evidence will just continue to build. There's a problem starting the 2 of them together, especially on the defensive end. We're effectively starting 2 centers, neither of whom is particularly mobile.
    The 20 game mark was not set by danh, it's 25% of the season and is true for eliminating smoke and mirrors among all sports. It's 40 games in baseball and 4 games in the nfl as well
    11/20/16 Lest we forget - The Sacramento Screw Job.
    We will not go quietly in the night. We will rage against the dying light. We will study every buzzer beater with intensified might, because somethin with the NBA doesn't smell right.

  12. #951
    Raptors Republic Superstar S.R.'s Avatar
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    Ppl arguing for more Ibaka at the 5 - who are the other 4 guys on the floor for these small ball units? And, how many minutes are left for JV/Poeltl/Bebe/Siakam and how are they allocated?

  13. #952
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    Ppl arguing for more Ibaka at the 5 - who are the other 4 guys on the floor for these small ball units? And, how many minutes are left for JV/Poeltl/Bebe/Siakam and how are they allocated?
    We don't care. Play more like golden state. Sure they have 3 of the best shooters in history and all world defensive 4/5, while we have premier drivers, slashers, bullly ball players and guys who win by grinding and slowing it down. Mooooarrr copying golden state!!!1!
    11/20/16 Lest we forget - The Sacramento Screw Job.
    We will not go quietly in the night. We will rage against the dying light. We will study every buzzer beater with intensified might, because somethin with the NBA doesn't smell right.

  14. #953
    Raptors Republic Veteran planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    Ppl arguing for more Ibaka at the 5 - who are the other 4 guys on the floor for these small ball units? And, how many minutes are left for JV/Poeltl/Bebe/Siakam and how are they allocated?
    If Serge is a 5 than Siakam is probably the only natural 4 on this team. OG can play some 4 but he's better as a 3 (until he grows in more). I like Siakam but no way should Siakam be playing 30+ minutes a game every game.

  15. #954
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    We don't care. Play more like golden state. Sure they have 3 of the best shooters in history and all world defensive 4/5, while we have premier drivers, slashers, bullly ball players and guys who win by grinding and slowing it down. Mooooarrr copying golden state!!!1!
    Yeaaaaah. That's the ticket.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyp9fh-u4w8
    Last edited by Puffer; Thu Nov 9th, 2017 at 04:01 PM.

  16. #955
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    We don't care. Play more like golden state. Sure they have 3 of the best shooters in history and all world defensive 4/5, while we have premier drivers, slashers, bullly ball players and guys who win by grinding and slowing it down. Mooooarrr copying golden state!!!1!
    Has nothing to do with playing like GS. It has to do with the fact that Ibaka is atrocious defensively at the 4, and he's not trade-able.

  17. #956
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    If Serge is a 5 than Siakam is probably the only natural 4 on this team. OG can play some 4 but he's better as a 3 (until he grows in more). I like Siakam but no way should Siakam be playing 30+ minutes a game every game.
    OG is better at the 4 right now considering he doesn't have a particularly reliable shot, and while recovering is still a bit slow for some of the faster wings out there.

    Siakam wouldn't play 30mpg. I'm not saying play Ibaka exclusively at the 5. I'd want him to start both halves there and finish games there (that's like 18-20 minutes depending on how the rotation works out). He can play the 4 against bench units where his shit defense there is less of an issue. That leaves 28-30 minutes at center for JV and one of Bebe/Poeltl (eventually hopefully trading JV to get an upgrade at SF on Powell and move him to backup SG). About 35 minutes to split between Siakam and Anunoby (20 and 15 each probably) at the 4, which isn't much more than they're playing right now.

    That improves the starters' defense tremendously and also improves the bench's offense by putting JV there. The argument against this before was that we don't move the ball... except the bench DOES move the fucking ball now so JV would be more of a focal point with that unit.

  18. #957
    Raptors Republic Superstar SkywalkerAC's Avatar
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    Nice work Serge!

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