Everything 2017 Off-Season

[S.R.]

I get the whole glitz and glam with the Lakers, but I have no idea why any competitive guy wants to go to a losing program. George doesn't strike me as a guy who'd putting winning on the backburner to live it up in LA. Another poster rightfully mentioned the DeMar/Laker connection too that ended up being a bunch of hot smoke by the media.

If the Raptors can feasibly get PG, they should make it happen. He's a legit superstar. He's long and plays both sides of the floor and has a great work ethic. He can guard guys like Lebron and Giannis.

Lakers pitch is strengthened by two things: their young guys started winning at the end of the year and they might be able to talk a guy like George into the idea that they're on the cusp of turning the corner, + #2 but also related is Magic's new position. It'll be up to him to sell the Lakers to FA's, I think his pitch will be stronger than last summer with Buss Jr. + the state of the team at that time.

I wouldn't underestimate a lot of star players' belief in their ability to be the guy to help a team turn it around. It's just as strong as the recent pull towards superfriendz rosters imho.

[white men can't jump]

If George puts the Raptors on that list.... common sense tells me that it's because Demar's here.

Did it ever occur to you that Paul George is the player who would be deadly off the ball?

He's also the much better defender and would be able to focus more on that end. In my opinion, George and Demar would be a deadly combo.....Comparing him to past players Demar's played with (Rudy Gay?) is laughable.

I have a feeling that he's learned from his time playing in Indiana that you need to play with other all-stars in order to have a chance to win it all.

Regardless, the Raptors would never trade Demar anyways. He's the face of the franchise and there's no guarantee that Paul George would stay.


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Yes George can play off the ball, but you can't simply use him only in that role, and they'd both play heavy minutes. Demar has ridiculously high usage and low assist numbers to go with it. Funneling our offence through Demar in a similar way we do now would pretty much guarantee we'd be underutilizing George, and again if we try to give him more usage what the hell purpose would DeMar serve off the ball.

It's a very natural tradeoff.

And who says we wouldn't have all-stars. What if we bring Lowry and Ibaka back? And we know JV can be a force, and that George himself has seen him kill the Pacers so most likely thinks highly of him. That starting lineup, if you still keep Powell, gets much better defensively, and has better shooting as well.

Also trading Demar would easily mean bleeding less assets than a package built around JV, Powell and picks, which could gut our team and take off some of the best value pieces of what will be a capped out roster. With Demar you maybe have to add a pick or prospect, but Masai may even be able to avoid that, especially if he could get another team involved. In another deal you're probably looking at losing at least 4-5 pieces. If it's built on JV and Powell, chances are you have to add a 1st rounder or two, and maybe more pieces as well just to make salaries match (and we can hope but who knows if they'd take Carroll's dead weight back in such a trade, which means possibly giving up more good pieces). Suddenly you'd lack depth, would surrender youth, would lose draft assets, and are capped out so can't plug holes easily in free agency.

Paul George is a much better player than Demar, and it would be fully worth the tradeoff as it would make our team more dangerous. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to re-assess their way of thinking.

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[Chr1s1anL]

I would like to see raps make a run at Milsap. I think Ibaka is better when he is at C. Frontcourt of Milsap and Ibaka would be a terror. Kind of like Milsap/Horford in ATL but better defensively.

If let got rid of JV/Cojo/Carroll and let 2pat walk. Could when bring back Lowry/Ibaka and sign Milsap?

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[KeonClark]

I would like to see raps make a run at Milsap. I think Ibaka is better when he is at C. Frontcourt of Milsap and Ibaka would be a terror. Kind of like Milsap/Horford in ATL but better defensively.

If let got rid of JV/Cojo/Carroll and let 2pat walk. Could when bring back Lowry/Ibaka and sign Milsap?

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No. We can barely afford to bring back Lowry, Ibaka and Tucker. EVEN with letting those guys walk. People are underestimating how bad the cap crunch is gonna be this summer

[planetmars]

Only way to get Millsap would be through a S&T... and from all reports during the trade deadline, Atlanta (ie, Bud) really wants Millsap back. So trading for him is just not in the cards.

But I do agree.. Millsap/Ibaka would be awesome.

[special1]

Yes George can play off the ball, but you can't simply use him only in that role, and they'd both play heavy minutes. Demar has ridiculously high usage and low assist numbers to go with it. Funneling our offence through Demar in a similar way we do now would pretty much guarantee we'd be underutilizing George, and again if we try to give him more usage what the hell purpose would DeMar serve off the ball.

It's a very natural tradeoff.

And who says we wouldn't have all-stars. What if we bring Lowry and Ibaka back? And we know JV can be a force, and that George himself has seen him kill the Pacers so most likely thinks highly of him. That starting lineup, if you still keep Powell, gets much better defensively, and has better shooting as well.

Also trading Demar would easily mean bleeding less assets than a package built around JV, Powell and picks, which could gut our team and take off some of the best value pieces of what will be a capped out roster. With Demar you maybe have to add a pick or prospect, but Masai may even be able to avoid that, especially if he could get another team involved. In another deal you're probably looking at losing at least 4-5 pieces. If it's built on JV and Powell, chances are you have to add a 1st rounder or two, and maybe more pieces as well just to make salaries match (and we can hope but who knows if they'd take Carroll's dead weight back in such a trade, which means possibly giving up more good pieces). Suddenly you'd lack depth, would surrender youth, would lose draft assets, and are capped out so can't plug holes easily in free agency.

Paul George is a much better player than Demar, and it would be fully worth the tradeoff as it would make our team more dangerous. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to re-assess their way of thinking.

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Paul George WITH Demar, Powell, Lowry and Serge would make our team even better than without Demar.

They don't even play the same position as George is a SF and can play small ball 4. You also need to keep AGE in mind as George and Demar are about the same age (27) so the window would be the same and long.

Having said all that, anyone who thinks Paul George would come to the Raps to play with an ageing Lowry and a bunch of role players need to re-assess their way of thinking.

He would be coming here to play with a young 27 year old 3 time all-star who just started the last all-star game and has a history of getting better every year. Also, George knows Demar very well as they both grew up in California.




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[white men can't jump]

Paul George WITH Demar, Powell, Lowry and Serge would make our team even better than without Demar.

They don't even play the same position as George is a SF and can play small ball 4. You also need to keep AGE in mind as George and Demar are about the same age (27) so the window would be the same and long.

Having said all that, anyone who thinks Paul George would come to the Raps to play with an ageing Lowry and a bunch of role players need to re-assess their way of thinking.

He would be coming here to play with a young 27 year old 3 time all-star who just started the last all-star game and has a history of getting better every year. Also, George knows Demar very well as they both grew up in California.




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My point is that if he could come here you trade pretty much whoever. Holy fuck. If the cost of getting George is DeMar, that's completely acceptable. The team will still be stronger than our current team, or say, his best Pacers team. And I can't say it wouldn't be better than whatever team you might end up with in other configurations of the trade. Any other offer almost certainly includes Powell and JV, and they're two big pieces of the team. Carroll is dead weight, so he can't be counted on as a rotation piece. Tucker is a one-way undersized tweener forward who is hitting his mid-30s on his next contract. Joseph may have to be traded as welll, especially if they want no part of Carroll. We probably won't be able to afford re-signing 2Pat.

The rotation would be Ibaka, Tucker, George, Demar, Lowry, Cojo/Caroll, Wright, Siakam, Poeltl, FVV, Bebe, Bruno. We'd have no money for free agents, and we'd definitely have to give up one or many picks in the trade. We'd have no depth, not much size, poor rebounding and sketchy depth everywhere except point guard. George and Demar are in their primes, but any decline from your aging vets and you'll have a hard time retooling on the fly. So your window may end up being quite short. This team could be really strong, but if it ends up not working out you're fucked and probably have to blow it up. And honestly the depth is so sketchy that even with that your have no safety net. Those guys have to produce every night or you go down. Depth is often an asset in the playoffs because at some point the oppenent figures out how to stop one or two of your main guys, or they just go cold. You need other guys to step up.

If you can get him for a pretty much straight up deal for Demar with only one more piece/pick if you have to, you could have Ibaka, JV, George, Powell, Lowry, Wright, Cojo, Caroll, Tucker maybe (especially if you can shed Carroll, and maybe Joseph if you have to), Wright, Poeltl, Siakam, Bebe, FVV, Bruno, and while you'd be capped out you're younger, with more assets and probably more incoming draft picks. You have more depth, lineup versatility and less glaring holes. You lose a big talent at one position, but gain a bigger one at another while basically maintaining a roster that's better than the one we made the ECF finals with. I think Masai could sell George on that if Demar was the price. And he'd have more flexibility to make changes if he needs to.


**And honestly, now that I think of it, Pacers might not even want JV at all with Turner at C. Turner isn't quick enough to play PF full time in this league. They might prefer a deal with DeMar coming back. And if they end up just wanting young pieces + picks, we probably can't compete with some other teams in the league, like Boston, or maybe even a Minnesota or some such. But since he's hitting his prime, he'll probably want to go to a winning team. So some of those teams would be ruled out. Not many winning teams can put together a package that wouldn't screw them.


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[special1]

2017 Off-season

My point is that if he could come here you trade pretty much whoever. Holy fuck. If the cost of getting George is DeMar, that's completely acceptable. The team will still be stronger than our current team, or say, his best Pacers team. And I can't say it wouldn't be better than whatever team you might end up with in other configurations of the trade. Any other offer almost certainly includes Powell and JV, and they're two big pieces of the team. Carroll is dead weight, so he can't be counted on as a rotation piece. Tucker is a one-way undersized tweener forward who is hitting his mid-30s on his next contract. Joseph may have to be traded as welll, especially if they want no part of Carroll. We probably won't be able to afford re-signing 2Pat.

The rotation would be Ibaka, Tucker, George, Demar, Lowry, Cojo/Caroll, Wright, Siakam, Poeltl, FVV, Bebe, Bruno. We'd have no money for free agents, and we'd definitely have to give up one or many picks in the trade. We'd have no depth, not much size, poor rebounding and sketchy depth everywhere except point guard. George and Demar are in their primes, but any decline from your aging vets and you'll have a hard time retooling on the fly. So your window may end up being quite short. This team could be really strong, but if it ends up not working out you're fucked and probably have to blow it up. And honestly the depth is so sketchy that even with that your have no safety net. Those guys have to produce every night or you go down. Depth is often an asset in the playoffs because at some point the oppenent figures out how to stop one or two of your main guys, or they just go cold. You need other guys to step up.

If you can get him for a pretty much straight up deal for Demar with only one more piece/pick if you have to, you could have Ibaka, JV, George, Powell, Lowry, Wright, Cojo, Caroll, Tucker maybe (especially if you can shed Carroll, and maybe Joseph if you have to), Wright, Poeltl, Siakam, Bebe, FVV, Bruno, and while you'd be capped out you're younger, with more assets and probably more incoming draft picks. You have more depth, lineup versatility and less glaring holes. You lose a big talent at one position, but gain a bigger one at another while basically maintaining a roster that's better than the one we made the ECF finals with. I think Masai could sell George on that if Demar was the price. And he'd have more flexibility to make changes if he needs to.


**And honestly, now that I think of it, Pacers might not even want JV at all with Turner at C. Turner isn't quick enough to play PF full time in this league. They might prefer a deal with DeMar coming back. And if they end up just wanting young pieces + picks, we probably can't compete with some other teams in the league, like Boston, or maybe even a Minnesota or some such. But since he's hitting his prime, he'll probably want to go to a winning team. So some of those teams would be ruled out. Not many winning teams can put together a package that wouldn't screw them.


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Demar's untouchable in any trade for a number of reasons.

He's probably the only untouchable player on the team.

It's like asking .... would you trade Kyrie for Lebron.... Would you trade Klay Thompson for Kevin Durant? Sure. But wouldn't it be better to have both??

It doesn't matter if Indy wanted JV, you would trade him to whomever and flip those assets (find a third or fourth team).

A 27 year old starting all-star in his prime is someone you want to build around. Loyalty and perception is a BIG DEAL in this league. It goes a very long way and you can bet George and other players see it because of guys like Demar and to a lesser extent Lowry.

I never understood the thought that we would trade the most loyal player we've ever had, the ONLY player who's openly said he wants to retire as a Raptor.....Who happens to be in his prime. By the way, he's also legit one of the best players in the game. You would have to find a way to keep Demar period. Anyone else is available.




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[Maury]

Demar isn't going to be traded and he really shouldn't be traded either. Whether we win with him or not, we have to ride it out with him. You don't sign the most loyal player you've ever had to a max contract, tout him as your franchise player and then ship him away. He has said numerous times that he loves Toronto and he wants to stay in Toronto for his whole career. It really will help our franchise in the future if both sides can actually make this happen. Our reputation in the league will be much improved, and we will be seen as a top tier franchise because we treat our players well and they want to stay in Toronto.


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[Chr1s1anL]

Deebo is a Raptor lifer.

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[The Great One]

Demar isn't going to be traded and he really shouldn't be traded either. Whether we win with him or not, we have to ride it out with him. You don't sign the most loyal player you've ever had to a max contract, tout him as your franchise player and then ship him away. He has said numerous times that he loves Toronto and he wants to stay in Toronto for his whole career. It really will help our franchise in the future if both sides can actually make this happen. Our reputation in the league will be much improved, and we will be seen as a top tier franchise because we treat our players well and they want to stay in Toronto.


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Good point.

[suspenders]

Demar isn't going to be traded and he really shouldn't be traded either. Whether we win with him or not, we have to ride it out with him. You don't sign the most loyal player you've ever had to a max contract, tout him as your franchise player and then ship him away. He has said numerous times that he loves Toronto and he wants to stay in Toronto for his whole career. It really will help our franchise in the future if both sides can actually make this happen. Our reputation in the league will be much improved, and we will be seen as a top tier franchise because we treat our players well and they want to stay in Toronto.


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Good point.

+1

[Maury]

That's also why trading Demarre Carrol is being delayed so much. He's our big free agent signing and we want the rest of the league to know that if they sign with the raptors they will have an important role in the organization.


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[white men can't jump]

Lmao that people think reputation for loyalty matters. It's pro sports, the only perception that matters is if you win. If you do, it won't matter too much how these nonsense loyalty narratives play out.

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[Nilanka]

Lmao that people think reputation for loyalty matters. It's pro sports, the only perception that matters is if you win. If you do, it won't matter too much how these nonsense loyalty narratives play out.

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The Lakers decision to postpone their rebuild into order to have a full year of meaningless Kobe Retirement Tour, was maddening. I would've blown a gasket if I were a Lakers fan. This is what happens when "loyalty" trumps winning.