Everything 2017 Off-Season

[The Great One]

Can you say sour grapes? lol

[The Great One]

Maybe if DC actually played like a junkyard dog then he would have earned respect from our other players, but he played bad, didn't seem to care a lot and couldn't hit a shot. Why would Demar pass to him when he would miss over and over again. You can't keep trusting someone like that. Maybe if he focused on ball more than his next shopping marathon (which seemed to be bi-weekly at least) then other players would take him more seriously. Good riddance.


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DeRozan is more of a JYD than Carroll. That tells you everything lol.

[MixxAOR]

When you play like shit yeah. I'm pretty sure Norm's opinion is respected

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yeah fuck this guy. He is trash

[golden]

DeRozan is more of a JYD than Carroll. That tells you everything lol.

Whenever somebody has to bestow upon themself a tough, scrappy nickname like JYD and says stuff like "... if you see me in a fight with a bear, you better go help that bear...." you just know you're going to be really disappointed. Never liked the signing from Day 1 and Carroll's just making it look worse, if that was even possible.

[tDotted]

Caroll complains about ball movement but had some of the most horrendous tunnel vision I've ever seen.

One of the worst starters I've ever seen play basketball in the NBA.

[The Great One]

Caroll complains about ball movement but had some of the most horrendous tunnel vision I've ever seen.

One of the worst starters I've ever seen play basketball in the NBA.

With Carroll, you just knew he's going to turn the ball over everytime he dribble the ball or drive to the hoop. Absolutely brutal to watch.

This made me think - worse signing Carroll or Turkoglu?

[KeonClark]

With Carroll, you just knew he's going to turn the ball over everytime he dribble the ball or drive to the hoop. Absolutely brutal to watch.

This made me think - worse signing Carroll or Turkoglu?

Carroll. Hedo had some good games

[BadDinosaur]

On one hand carroll is just unprofessional with all this talk. Worse... he was unprofessional while he was with the raptors - spending more time shopping and caring for his fashion fetish than practicing and producing on the court.
On the other hand he's right. The isolation style of basketball catering to kyle and demar is bad for the team.
With this style they will never reach the results in the playoffs this team is potentially capable of and the fanbase expects and deserves.
I wouldn't be suprised if Carroll thrives again and performs to his standards of his hawks years. This, on top of the James Johnson exemple, would add to the evidence that we have a serious system flaw. Regardless, I'm happy we got rid of him.
But I guess we already know that the combination of casey+derozan+kyle is extremely flawed. One of them would need to go before we can get to the next level. But all of them are staying for at least one more year. So either one of them changes drastically... like derozan shooting 3s at 40% and taking less shots, more passing or/and kyle becoming more of a p&r pg without the many drives to basket and falling to the ground, playing less minutes to prevent him from breaking apart before the playoffs... or casey changing 180° and making ball movement and a more democratic shot distribution a priority... unless all those things happen, I can't see the Raptors improving on their last season results. Unless JV explodes or Powell... or ... or...

[Scraptor]

I want to start by saying I was against the Carroll deal from day one. But some things are being forgotten here:

DC is salty. You wanna talk shit, talk during the season. Or @ Exit interviews. There's no need to trash your ex-team if they trade you. Unprofessional.

He did. He's been saying it throughout his tenure here:

In the opening months of Carroll’s time in Toronto, he told us he had been hoping to lead by example, based on his past experiences.

“There are plenty of shots that I could shoot but I pass up and there’s plenty of times that I shoot shots that I should pass up so I’ve got to stay true to who I am and be an unselfish guy. Hopefully I can lead by example and guys can tag along,” Carroll had said back then.

Veteran Luis Scola would later say similar things.

Back then, Carroll labelled the team’s ball movement as “average at best,” adding, “I don’t think it’s nothing to be too happy about … I feel like every time down the court, if you move the ball good enough, somebody should get an open shot. We’re getting there, I think people are learning,” he said.

“Coming from Atlanta, where you’ve seen like 85-90% of our possessions is wide open shots. So I think we’re doing better than (the Raptors) did (the year prior), from watching their games from last year. It’s a work in progress, we’re not going to get better overnight so we’ve just got to keep trying to get better and keep trying to build a culture here as an unselfish team.”

The Raptors never reached that point in 2015-16.

Then in May 2016 https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...me-arthur.html

November 2016 http://nationalpost.com/sports/baske...1-6a4b319f51df

April 2017 http://m.torontosun.com/2017/04/26/c...-the-ball-more

i mean the thing is i don't disagree with Carroll's initial comments about ball movement, etc. but man, time and place.

The other thing is that it's pretty clear Carroll felt we mismanaged his injuries.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/t...-injury-010516

Casey had him playing a ton of minutes coming off a bout of plantar fasciitis that never went away. Then he claimed we rushed him back with his knee. http://www.cbc.ca/m/sports/basketbal...dset-1.3783177

____________

So he came to a team where he's a spectator, where he was battling injuries and rushed back (something we've seen with multiple players now), and he doesn't perform. It's no surprise that he's happy to get a fresh start. Especially because Atkinson is all about pace and space.

If this was a one-off situation you could say it's just the player. But Rudy made similar comments about his usage as a heavy four. Patterson spoke out. Tucker more subtly threw shade. James Johnson simply performed up to his true potential.

So is the problem with all these players? Did we gather a bunch of malcontents, underachievers, players who accepted less to play elsewhere? Or does something smell in our leadership or culture?

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I want to start by saying I was against the Carroll deal from day one. But some things are being forgotten here:



He did. He's been saying it throughout his tenure here:



Then in May 2016 https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...me-arthur.html

November 2016 http://nationalpost.com/sports/baske...1-6a4b319f51df

April 2017 http://m.torontosun.com/2017/04/26/c...-the-ball-more



The other thing is that it's pretty clear Carroll felt we mismanaged his injuries.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/t...-injury-010516

Casey had him playing a ton of minutes coming off a bout of plantar fasciitis that never went away. Then he claimed we rushed him back with his knee. http://www.cbc.ca/m/sports/basketbal...dset-1.3783177

____________

So he came to a team where he's a spectator, where he was battling injuries and rushed back (something we've seen with multiple players now), and he doesn't perform. It's no surprise that he's happy to get a fresh start. Especially because Atkinson is all about pace and space.

If this was a one-off situation you could say it's just the player. But Rudy made similar comments about his usage as a heavy four. Patterson spoke out. Tucker more subtly threw shade. James Johnson simply performed up to his true potential.

So is the problem with all these players? Did we gather a bunch of malcontents, underachievers, players who accepted less to play elsewhere? Or does something smell in our leadership or culture?

Man I really appreciate this post. All these people are trashing Carroll but like you said he's not the only one who brought this up. Scola did, Patterson did, Tucker did, etc. Maybe Carroll's been the most abrasive about it but it doesn't make it incorrect.

We don't really play a system conducive to maximizing all the players on the team. I know we're not as talented as the Warriors, but man a system can make so much difference. With Marc Jackson they were a very good team but basically around the same level as us. ~50 wins and then get stomped once you run into one of the upper-echelon playoff teams.

I don't even buy the idea that Lowry and DeRozan can't play like that. Any high level basketball player can play unselfish basketball. Hell they do it with the USA team because they respect the star quality of the players they play with. It's about instilling a culture where it's more important for the team to work for a good shot than the best player to work for his shot.

[DanH]

I think what concerns people here is, when players speak out while here, they are raising concerns about the team whose success they are invested in, and in all likelihood are speaking out in good faith, hoping for the betterment of the team.

When a player hurls accusations after leaving, it's an attack. The classy move is to thank the team for their time (and the 30M almost entirely unearned dollars), and go to your new team and say all the nice things in the world you want about them. Throwing stones after leaving when it's no longer your problem? Who does that help?

Carroll brought up his concerns while here, as did other players, and that's all fine. It doesn't mean he's in the right bad mouthing the team now that he's elsewhere.

[golden]

I think what concerns people here is, when players speak out while here, they are raising concerns about the team whose success they are invested in, and in all likelihood are speaking out in good faith, hoping for the betterment of the team.

When a player hurls accusations after leaving, it's an attack. The classy move is to thank the team for their time (and the 30M almost entirely unearned dollars), and go to your new team and say all the nice things in the world you want about them. Throwing stones after leaving when it's no longer your problem? Who does that help?

Carroll brought up his concerns while here, as did other players, and that's all fine. It doesn't mean he's in the right bad mouthing the team now that he's elsewhere.

Yeah, 2 different things going on here: (1) Does the Raps system suck for 'system players' like Carroll? Yes. (2) Is now the right time for Carroll to be speaking out about that? No.

I chalk this up to Carroll's pride and ego being wounded badly. If you read 2Pat's article in the Players Tribune when he got traded to the Raps, one of the first things a player wants to know is "who he got traded for". It's an instinctive need to understand what your value as a professional is in your chosen career. The fact that the Raps had to fork over increasingly valuable draft assets and waive Justin Hamilton is a big slap to the face and he's trying to spread some of that blame, and rightly so. Timing, though. He should have waited until he actually has a bounce back season under Atkinson.

[Demographic Shift]

Yeah, 2 different things going on here: (1) Does the Raps system suck for 'system players' like Carroll? Yes. (2) Is now the right time for Carroll to be speaking out about that? No.

I chalk this up to Carroll's pride and ego being wounded badly. If you read 2Pat's article in the Players Tribune when he got traded to the Raps, one of the first things a player wants to know is "who he got traded for". It's an instinctive need to understand what your value as a professional is in your chosen career. The fact that the Raps had to fork over increasingly valuablae draft assets and waive Justin Hamilton is a big slap to the face and he's trying to spread some of that blame, and rightly so. Timing, though. He should have waited until he actually has a bounce back season under Atkinson.

Great insight...Carroll wasn't traded as much as he was put on an ice floe and pushed out to sea.
Regardless of who you are and what you do..being simply paid to go away hurts. We heard that very human reaction in response to that action. Hope he turns it around and helps the Nets finish ahead of the Knicks.

[Mess]

Yeah, there's constructive criticism and then there's taking shots. The words could be exactly the same but the circumstance of the player saying them changes their context and how they'r received.

Anyway, I really do hope Carroll gets healthy again and enjoys his time in Brooklyn. It's obvious he's yearning to go back to the glory days of his career - in Atlanta when he was A) healthy and B) on an above average team. He had one of the two in Toronto and if he gets healthy he'll have one of the two in Brooklyn.

[DanH]

Yeah, there's constructive criticism and then there's taking shots. The words could be exactly the same but the circumstance of the player saying them changes their context and how they'r received.

Anyway, I really do hope Carroll gets healthy again and enjoys his time in Brooklyn. It's obvious he's yearning to go back to the glory days of his career - in Atlanta when he was A) healthy and B) on an above average team. He had one of the two in Toronto and if he gets healthy he'll have one of the two in Brooklyn.

I think it would be really fun for:

a) The Raps to grab 1st seed because CLE doesn't care about the regular season and BOS struggles to integrate their new pieces for a while; and
b) The Nets to have a miraculous year with Carroll playing better and somehow sneaking into 8th, with so many East teams taking a step back; and
c) The Raptors destroying the Nets, gaining revenge for 2013 with DeRozan going nuts with Carroll as his primary defender; and
d) BOS getting a non-lotto pick from the Nets, because screw Boston.

Yep, that would work for me. More likely they post another 20 win season, but either way is good.