Everything 2017 Off-Season

[lewro]

if only for the hilarity of watching casey's head explode trying to work out an offence with a pass-first point guard again, sure.

It's probably a good thing if Casey is fired by xmas.
We do need ball movement. But we also need shooting. I'm lukewarm on this deal. It's mostly about the $ and Lowry's age.

[A.I]

if only for the hilarity of watching casey's head explode trying to work out an offence with a pass-first point guard again, sure.

He'll try to turn Rubio into an iso, score first PG just like he did with Vasquez.

[blackjitsu]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/06/...ee-others.html

Wolves want Lowry. They only have $20m in cap room. S&t Lowry for rubio and picks?

No

It's probably a good thing if Casey is fired by xmas.
We do need ball movement. But we also need shooting. I'm lukewarm on this deal. It's mostly about the $ and Lowry's age.

What?

[3inthekeon]

Was thinking second unit change of pace to absorb some contact from big 5s and prevent jokic injury. I think they liked what nurkic was capable of but not his attitude. JV gives a lot of what nurkic does but a much better teammate.
It's a stretch but we don't have a lot of options

Why do people keep thinking teams will trade for a $16 million a year backup.

[lewro]

No



What?

I'm not a Casey fan. Rather have a new coach. That means we would be underperforming but we might have to take a step back to move forward. The real contenders are just so much better than the raps.
Lowry is great but I'm not impressed with his attitude and the culture post-all star. I'm not feeling great about maxing him into old age.
I'm a Rubio fan. The shooting is a problem but i like the passing, D and IQ.
The finances is the biggest reason. How can we improve and balance the books?

[lewro]

Why do people keep thinking teams will trade for a $16 million a year backup.

I don't but we have to make the $ work somehow.
Maybe it boils down to stretching Demarre (as you suggested) but I'd rather exhaust all options first. That's an easy fix but last resort and not a positive.

[3inthekeon]

Didn't really suggest stretching Demarre, just asked the question, and you're right, it is the last resort. Carroll was actually effective at times, just not when it really mattered or against those players he was signed to shut down.

[planetmars]

I don't see Masai stretching Carroll. The stretch provisions allows you to waive a player by creating a smaller cap hit. To do it the cap hit becomes stretched over twice the contract years + 1 year.

So in Carroll's case he has 2 years left on his deal (at $30.2M total). If stretched his cap hit would become $6,040,000 (so about $6M) for 5 years.

Is it worth keeping a dead cap hit of $6M for 5 years? That's around the mid-level for a non tax team. Feels like it's not worth it. Although that $10M in saving for the next two years can help them keep Tucker, assuming a large tax bill is not in their cards.

[blackjitsu]

I'm not a Casey fan. Rather have a new coach. That means we would be underperforming but we might have to take a step back to move forward. The real contenders are just so much better than the raps.
Lowry is great but I'm not impressed with his attitude and the culture post-all star. I'm not feeling great about maxing him into old age.
I'm a Rubio fan. The shooting is a problem but i like the passing, D and IQ.
The finances is the biggest reason. How can we improve and balance the books?

Huh?

We?

If you want to learn how to win, study how winning teams are formed. Even Cleveland slowly built their team. Waited until they had a championship calibre lineup/ or assets they could trade to get said lineup and THEN they replaced their coaches. San Antonio did that back in the day (Pop fired his coach as they were tanking). Miami did that. Cleveland did that. Golden State did that. You don't fire a decent coach before the team is ready to take that step.

No one cares what you or I think of someone's attitude. Neither one of us work with the man. You have no clue what his attitude is. Plus, his results speak louder than any attitude you think he has because he doesn't like being interviewed.

You want Calderon 2.0 to run Toronto? How did 1.0 fair? I like Jose. I love high B-Ball IQ players. I respect the newer version being able to defend, but the man can't shoot. He can't pull his weight from a position that demands scoring in modern basketball.

This is a 50+ win team with Lowry. Since he has properly had the reigns, the team has been a playoff team. We can see that. What has Rubio done? Look at some of the rosters Lowry has dragged to the playoffs, other than Derozan, who plays with more talent? And don't say it's because they're in the West. Look at some of the sketchy teams Lillard drag into the playoffs. How long Rubio doing this? Come on.

I want none of that. Attitude is a child's argument. No disrespect, but neither one of us can dive into another man's brain.

It's not your money. MLSE is a multi-billion dollar corporation. They can pay some taxes. The hockey side can pay it, if the Raptors need funds. The Soccer team is looking like you will not be able to get a ticket next year, if they can keep the momentum. They have money. The Raps sell out almost every game. MLSE can manipulate their TV deal however they want to generate more revenue. All the championship teams are going to go into tax, or are in the tax already. But they keep their assets, so that they can trade them when the time comes.

You want the Raps to trade for Rubio, lose Lowry (as a player and trade asset), fire Casey too early without even pitching a respectable replacement and try to justify this with a fake rationale? I'm not a fan of Casey either, but this is reality. Casey is the coach until he messes up, or the team is ready to take that next step.

If the Raptors coaching staff, and front office are okay with his attitude, where do you get off talking about Lowry's attitude? YOU DON'T KNOW THE MAN. What is this, primary school? Kyle doesn't smile, so there's something wrong? I can't even say what that sounds like in polite company.

[lewro]

It's hard enough to think of a hypothetical way to balance the books, let alone a realistic and palatable one.
For example, I was reading a Knicks forum and they were talking to each other about taking on Demarre, if we added OG and the Magic 2nd. Gross, right? So if we countered with siakam + Carroll then the middle ground might be Delon or Delon + 2nd. I just can't stomach that kind of deal.
JV + cojo for say faried and Barton has at least some positive return. Yes, $16m is an expensive backup but they're only paying Jokic $1.3m, they don't have another centre and they do have a glut of players at every other position, with low contracts. Cojo could help them too. They could also want a s+t for Lowry bc they're desperate for an all star.
We were 14-7 (.666) without kyle last yr and 37-24 (.606) with him. I think we all agree that we are better with kyle but does that hold true at $35m in yr 3+? I'm not so sure...
Firing Casey and trading kyle could also represent a culture shift. A new coach and a PG like Rubio could really help to get guys like JV and Demarre more involved.
There's a lot of detractions to all these ideas but something has to give. I'd like to hear if you guys have other scenarios? It's easy to say dump Carroll but to whom and for what?

[jimmie]

Why does something have to give right now? I could be wrong, but doesn't the Lux tax get calculated at the END of the season? Which would give Masai until the '18 trade deadline to shed salary. I've also seen nothing outside of this board to say that the tax is a real concern to MLSE. Of course it's just good management to try to lessen the impact by shedding players who are eating cap space and who are not deemed critical to the franchise's future, but the panic in here hasn't been reflected publicly by the team to my knowledge. I can see everyone minus Patterson being back to start the season if they can't find good deals for JV/Carroll/CoJo before then.

[lewro]

Blackjitsu, you want to cut everyone a cheque? Kyle does have a history of attitude issues reported in the media. Imo id say some of his behaviour/comments have not been professional. Im assuming you don't know him either to say that he does not have an attitude?
Psychology is part of a culture and it's not childish. I use pronouns like "we" bc the fanbase is part of that culture. Tbh, you seem a bit triggered and responding in a childish manner imo. That's fine. I'd like to hear your perspective and it sounds like your opinion is to cut everyone a cheque, is that right?
Jimmie, I don't think it's a panic to me so much as a scenario with a lot of conditions that make it an interesting topic to discuss and speculate. Yes, they can wait til the deadline and masai said they will go into the tax but I'd imagine they'd prefer not to be at the top of the league payroll when they're are not true contenders. Just my opinion.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Question... what about LMA as target?

[TrueTorontoFan]

I don't see Masai stretching Carroll. The stretch provisions allows you to waive a player by creating a smaller cap hit. To do it the cap hit becomes stretched over twice the contract years + 1 year.

So in Carroll's case he has 2 years left on his deal (at $30.2M total). If stretched his cap hit would become $6,040,000 (so about $6M) for 5 years.

Is it worth keeping a dead cap hit of $6M for 5 years? That's around the mid-level for a non tax team. Feels like it's not worth it. Although that $10M in saving for the next two years can help them keep Tucker, assuming a large tax bill is not in their cards.

Nah I think its worth it to suck it up and let him run out.

[TrueTorontoFan]

It's hard enough to think of a hypothetical way to balance the books, let alone a realistic and palatable one.
For example, I was reading a Knicks forum and they were talking to each other about taking on Demarre, if we added OG and the Magic 2nd. Gross, right? So if we countered with siakam + Carroll then the middle ground might be Delon or Delon + 2nd. I just can't stomach that kind of deal.
JV + cojo for say faried and Barton has at least some positive return. Yes, $16m is an expensive backup but they're only paying Jokic $1.3m, they don't have another centre and they do have a glut of players at every other position, with low contracts. Cojo could help them too. They could also want a s+t for Lowry bc they're desperate for an all star.
We were 14-7 (.666) without kyle last yr and 37-24 (.606) with him. I think we all agree that we are better with kyle but does that hold true at $35m in yr 3+? I'm not so sure...
Firing Casey and trading kyle could also represent a culture shift. A new coach and a PG like Rubio could really help to get guys like JV and Demarre more involved.
There's a lot of detractions to all these ideas but something has to give. I'd like to hear if you guys have other scenarios? It's easy to say dump Carroll but to whom and for what?

It is important to look at the strength of the schedule. Our hardest schedule occurred earlier in the season. Not to take to much away but that contributed to how we did.