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  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
    Even looking at on-off. Cavs are +6.2 with Kyrie on the floor. Raps are +7.5 with Kyle. Considering that most of the time when Kyrie is off the floor, LeBron is on... that actually hurts Kyrie's on-off rating.

    He's better than Kyle long-term easily.
    Still doesn't change the fact that Lowry is making 30 mill a year and can not be traded until December, which would most likely take him out of any potential trade package for Kyrie.

    Who's better Chris Paul or Isiah Thomas?

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    • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
      The regard people hold Lowry with here is absurd.
      We've been watching Lowry carry this squad for four years. What sort of opinion did you expect people to have of him?

      Over the past four seasons Lowry has the 14th highest WS/48 in the NBA, minimum 4000 minutes played. Irving is 29th and Wall is 79th. Over the past two he's 15th vs Irving at 39 and Wall at 77.

      In total RPM he was 10th last year vs Irving at 53 and Wall at 48.

      Lowry brings grit, leadership, and intangibles to the table. Irving does not. Wall is growing into that.

      Now would I trade the complete package that Lowry brings to the table for Irving? Yes. But I recognize that getting younger and gaining offensive prowess comes at a cost of defense and leadership. It's not an absolute slam dunk trade but a worthwhile gamble.

      You can't expect people on a Raptors forum to be unanimously in support of the idea, especially when it's nowhere near a clear-cut win based on the statistical evidence to date.

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      • Here we go again.
        Two beer away from being two beers away.

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        • Mess wrote: View Post
          Here we go again.
          ?

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          • #Respect

            Mamba Mentality

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            • TRex wrote: View Post
              #Respect

              What a role model for our kids and future athletes.

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              • GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
                Raptors have largely succeeded in creating an organizational culture. I think we could find ourselves surprised at how quickly things go south if they were to take that for granted.
                Perhaps, I do not understand what you are referring to but, as a fan, I see little evidence that the Raptors players and coaches share a significant organizational culture. Unless you mean a "All-Star Guards first, everyone else shut up and get out of the way" culture.

                From his experience as a player for two seasons DeMarre Carroll certainly seemed to raise legitimate questions about the health of the Raptor's team culture. Patterson was more diplomatic, but his comments in Oklahoma City suggested he also felt undermined by the Raptor's elite few culture. PJ Tucker said he decided to take less money to sign with Houston because "You want to win, obviously... but as a veteran guy, you want to be with coaches, players, where you totally fit.”

                What I see is that Ujiri and Casey inherited a young, talented team and garnered a lot of credit based primarily on the fact that the Lowry trade fell through. Although, I thought Casey seemed to do a very good job with the younger guys the first couple of years.

                But, how is running all your key plays through two players creating a "team first" attitude? How is scapegoating role players, when the main reason for not performing better in the playoffs has been selfish, sub-par shooting performances from the "stars?" How is turning your back on solid players and people like Amir and Pat in order to bring in personal friends and favorites creating an environment that rewards effort and loyalty? Obviously, just my opinion, but I do not see it.

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                • BrieflySpeaking wrote: View Post
                  Perhaps, I do not understand what you are referring to but, as a fan, I see little evidence that the Raptors players and coaches share a significant organizational culture. Unless you mean a "All-Star Guards first, everyone else shut up and get out of the way" culture.

                  From his experience as a player for two seasons DeMarre Carroll certainly seemed to raise legitimate questions about the health of the Raptor's team culture. Patterson was more diplomatic, but his comments in Oklahoma City suggested he also felt undermined by the Raptor's elite few culture. PJ Tucker said he decided to take less money to sign with Houston because "You want to win, obviously... but as a veteran guy, you want to be with coaches, players, where you totally fit.”

                  What I see is that Ujiri and Casey inherited a young, talented team and garnered a lot of credit based primarily on the fact that the Lowry trade fell through. Although, I thought Casey seemed to do a very good job with the younger guys the first couple of years.

                  But, how is running all your key plays through two players creating a "team first" attitude? How is scapegoating role players, when the main reason for not performing better in the playoffs has been selfish, sub-par shooting performances from the "stars?" How is turning your back on solid players and people like Amir and Pat in order to bring in personal friends and favorites creating an environment that rewards effort and loyalty? Obviously, just my opinion, but I do not see it.
                  Lowry trade fell through? There's so much here I want to dissect.

                  Injuries always plagued Amir during his time here.
                  Patterson came off the bench, and he could have made more of his open shots.

                  These are not players you build a team around.

                  I can see the Raptors heading in a youth direction lead by the players that have consistently performed beyond expectation. With substantial additions in Ibaka at the 4/5 position and CJ Miles at the 3.

                  Personally, the culture change that I have noticed is that this organization is not treating every free agent that walks through the door as a "big deal." Those days are over. Demarre Carroll was garbage and is sad to leave a winning team; I do not treat his concerns as exceptionally valid. PJ Tucker has some bad blood with this organization. I do not blame him for wanting to leave the team that forced his hand and made him play over seas. Patterson is a big piece for a bad team or a role player on a good one.

                  Your areas of concern are some of the very things that I'm looking forward to see.

                  DeRozan will be playing pass first basketball surrounded in perimeter shooters with an ultra athletic bench unit that has shown flashes. I can see a lot of growth within this organization from the top down, and I'm looking forward to seeing the Raptors capitalize on a very weak eastern conference.
                  Last edited by c-troop; Thu Aug 17, 2017, 01:15 AM.

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                  • c-troop wrote: View Post
                    Lowry trade fell through? There's so much here I want to dissect.

                    Injuries always plagued Amir during his time here.
                    Patterson came off the bench, and he could have made more of his open shots.

                    These are not players you build a team around.

                    I can see the Raptors heading in a youth direction lead by the players that have consistently performed beyond expectation. With substantial additions in Ibaka at the 4/5 position and CJ Miles at the 3.

                    Personally, the culture change that I have noticed is that this organization is not treating every free agent that walks through the door as a "big deal." Those days are over. Demarre Carroll was garbage and is sad to leave a winning team; I do not treat his concerns as exceptionally valid. PJ Tucker has some bad blood with this organization. I do not blame him for wanting to leave the team that forced his hand and made him play over seas. Patterson is a big piece for a bad team or a role player on a good one.

                    Your areas of concern are some of the very things that I'm looking forward to see.

                    DeRozan will be playing pass first basketball surrounded in perimeter shooters with an ultra athletic bench unit that has shown flashes. I can see a lot of growth within this organization from the top down, and I'm looking forward to seeing the Raptors capitalize on a very weak eastern conference.
                    Yeah, pretty excited as well. If you take Powell stats as a starter. You have 3 players around Deebo who shoot 40+ from 3. You either collapse and try to stop Deebo from getting to rim and leave KLow/Norm/Ibaka open. Also like JV/Yak chances one on one on the offensive class.

                    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                    @Chr1st1anL

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                    • Blake Murphy was on the Dunc'ed On podcast talking Raps if you want to hear some more Raps talk. No big revelations but interesting and fair discussions nonetheless.
                      Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                      • Bruno made the Brazil's final roster.
                        Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          Yeah, pretty excited as well. If you take Powell stats as a starter. You have 3 players around Deebo who shoot 40+ from 3. You either collapse and try to stop Deebo from getting to rim and leave KLow/Norm/Ibaka open. Also like JV/Yak chances one on one on the offensive class.

                          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                          I wonder if there is a small ball lineup that could incorporate

                          KLow/Miles/Norm/DeRozan/Ibaka.

                          Would they get bullied? Or would it start raining inside the ACC?

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                          • LMAO


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                              • Decent defender, can't shoot. Not really useful to us.

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