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  • ball4life wrote: View Post
    I dont think Norm is eligible for an extension. Gotta put in 3 years in the league with a 4 year rookie contract.
    As I noted in early July, Norm is eligible for an extension this year because the new CBA shortened the term length before an extension from 3 years to 2. Also, as a second round pick, he didn't sign a rookie scale contract, so veteran extension rules apply to him. Hence the 4/42 I suggested for him back in July - it is his maximum offer, based on the projected average salary this year.
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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      As I noted in early July, Norm is eligible for an extension this year because the new CBA shortened the term length before an extension from 3 years to 2. Also, as a second round pick, he didn't sign a rookie scale contract, so veteran extension rules apply to him. Hence the 4/42 I suggested for him back in July - it is his maximum offer, based on the projected average salary this year.
      Can such an extension be signed at any time before or during the season?

      Why would management make the offer? Norm is still relatively unproven and would seem likely to have a rather low ceiling, given his size, skill set, draft position and, especially, his age entering the league. It would seem the most advantageous course for management would be to put the decision off as long as possible.

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      • BrieflySpeaking wrote: View Post
        Can such an extension be signed at any time before or during the season?

        Why would management make the offer? Norm is still relatively unproven and would seem likely to have a rather low ceiling, given his size, skill set, draft position and, especially, his age entering the league. It would seem the most advantageous course for management would be to put the decision off as long as possible.
        If he outplays $10mm/yr in value you have a bargain deal and a good trade chip.

        If you wait till RFA and he earns well above that, not only do you have to pay more to retain him, the extra hit due to the luxury tax is even more onerous. (Unless of course you intend to move JV, but that has proved difficult anyway.)

        It's a situation similar to that of Jae Crowder, who after his first three years and at age 25 signed a 5-yr $35mm deal, which ended up being one of the best contracts in the league.

        But it depends entirely on Masai's assessment of whether Norm can give us high-end role player production. Seems like a reasonable bet but then I think Norm is best at SG, and I don't know how well he's going to fit next to Demar over the long-term.

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        • BrieflySpeaking wrote: View Post
          Can such an extension be signed at any time before or during the season?

          Why would management make the offer? Norm is still relatively unproven and would seem likely to have a rather low ceiling, given his size, skill set, draft position and, especially, his age entering the league. It would seem the most advantageous course for management would be to put the decision off as long as possible.
          Locking a VERY serviceable role player (if that is his ceiling, which I doubt) gives you not only his services, but also a very tradable piece to use in the future. Having Norm locked into a reasonable deal allows you to bundle him with JV, for instance, if you decide it becomes necessary to move JV.

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          • BrieflySpeaking wrote: View Post
            Can such an extension be signed at any time before or during the season?

            Why would management make the offer? Norm is still relatively unproven and would seem likely to have a rather low ceiling, given his size, skill set, draft position and, especially, his age entering the league. It would seem the most advantageous course for management would be to put the decision off as long as possible.
            The extension can be signed anytime between now and June 30th.

            If they can lock Norm into that deal, they should do it now and thank their lucky stars. All it takes is one stupid team to throw a THJ offer his way, and there's a plethora of stupid teams out there.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • Interesting to see if Norm is going to be a starter this season or not. Could play a huge role in the type of offers he receives.

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              • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                Interesting to see if Norm is going to be a starter this season or not. Could play a huge role in the type of offers he receives.
                It should. If he starts at SF beside DD, then it's going to be tricky for teams to judge his effectiveness defensively and also on offense as a likely 4th option. Powell's natural position should be SG, but DeMar's locked in there. Norm could potentially put up big numbers as DD's backup against other opposing bench guys and be 2nd option on offense. Looking around the league, there looks to be a lot of teams that could use an upgrade at SG, or have some aging guys there. Starting Norm might be a good strategic move for the Raps to keep his numbers down in this contract year.

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                • golden wrote: View Post
                  It should. If he starts at SF beside DD, then it's going to be tricky for teams to judge his effectiveness defensively and also on offense as a likely 4th option. Powell's natural position should be SG, but DeMar's locked in there. Norm could potentially put up big numbers as DD's backup against other opposing bench guys and be 2nd option on offense. Looking around the league, there looks to be a lot of teams that could use an upgrade at SG, or have some aging guys there. Starting Norm might be a good strategic move for the Raps to keep his numbers down in this contract year.
                  I was thinking that they are less likely to start him on a contract year to keep him from having a break out season and thus offers from other teams low, but I can see what you are saying as well about starting him to keep usage low. Ultimately I feel he's a starting quality SG which we can't use as a starter on a permanent basis. His best value to us may come in the form of a trade.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    It should. If he starts at SF beside DD, then it's going to be tricky for teams to judge his effectiveness defensively and also on offense as a likely 4th option. Powell's natural position should be SG, but DeMar's locked in there. Norm could potentially put up big numbers as DD's backup against other opposing bench guys and be 2nd option on offense. Looking around the league, there looks to be a lot of teams that could use an upgrade at SG, or have some aging guys there. Starting Norm might be a good strategic move for the Raps to keep his numbers down in this contract year.
                    You should go check Powell's #s when he starts next to Deebo. Compare them to when he comes off the bench.

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                    @Chr1st1anL

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                    • I think I would actually prefer not giving him an extension and see what the market does.. it's a gamble but I think it can pay off. How many teams will actually have cap space to make a good RFA offer to Norm? I know you only need one team, but I can't really even see which team that would be.

                      Masai isn't much of a gambler though. My guess is that Norm and his agent will agree to an extension.. similar to how Masai was able to get Ross and JV to sign extensions.

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                      • planetmars wrote: View Post
                        I think I would actually prefer not giving him an extension and see what the market does.. it's a gamble but I think it can pay off. How many teams will actually have cap space to make a good RFA offer to Norm? I know you only need one team, but I can't really even see which team that would be.

                        Masai isn't much of a gambler though. My guess is that Norm and his agent will agree to an extension.. similar to how Masai was able to get Ross and JV to sign extensions.
                        I think the risk/reward isn't on the Raptors' side holding out. You have to think someone will at least throw the MLE at Powell (4/37). So the team probably saves a couple million bucks a season, best case (unless Powell completely fails this season, which would already be bad news for the team). On the high side, the team saves a huge amount of money - and more importantly, taxes, which go up exponentially the higher over the threshold you go. So, 10M over the tax is a heck of a lot less expensive than 20M over the tax - and the difference between 10 and 20M over the tax is far greater than the difference between 10 and 0 over the tax.
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                        • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                          I was thinking that they are less likely to start him on a contract year to keep him from having a break out season and thus offers from other teams low, but I can see what you are saying as well about starting him to keep usage low. Ultimately I feel he's a starting quality SG which we can't use as a starter on a permanent basis. His best value to us may come in the form of a trade.
                          Positions don't really mean anything anymore in this era of positionless basketball.

                          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                          @Chr1st1anL

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                          • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                            You should go check Powell's #s when he starts next to Deebo. Compare them to when he comes off the bench.

                            Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                            True. Norm performed a lot better when he had some consistency in his role. When Ross and Carroll were still here it wasn't even clear if he had a bench role. He'd go for long stretches without even playing. I'm expecting big things from Norm this year. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Norm less efficient starting next to DeMar when Lowry was out, but had higher raw stats?

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                            • planetmars wrote: View Post
                              I think I would actually prefer not giving him an extension and see what the market does.. it's a gamble but I think it can pay off. How many teams will actually have cap space to make a good RFA offer to Norm? I know you only need one team, but I can't really even see which team that would be.

                              Masai isn't much of a gambler though. My guess is that Norm and his agent will agree to an extension.. similar to how Masai was able to get Ross and JV to sign extensions.
                              Definitely a gamble. There's like 11-12 teams who could potentially have enough cap space to make Norm a higher offer (if they rescind all cap holds etc.). At least half of them definitely won't end up that way. And some of those that are left already have young SG's that you'd assume they'll want to resign (Booker, LaVine, KCP, Hood etc.). And perhaps a team thinks they can get Norm cheaper than their own player - that's another wrinkle.

                              There's also unforeseen trades and the draft that you need to consider. Let me add here, fuck ESPN for putting DraftExpress stuff behind a paywall.

                              I'll let Masai and co. go through all that work - though it is tempting.
                              Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                              • golden wrote: View Post
                                True. Norm performed a lot better when he had some consistency in his role. When Ross and Carroll were still here it wasn't even clear if he had a bench role. He'd go for long stretches without even playing. I'm expecting big things from Norm this year. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Norm less efficient starting next to DeMar when Lowry was out, but had higher raw stats?
                                Norm didn't start much next to DeMar when Lowry was out. He started next to Lowry when DeMar was out, or beside both when Carroll was out/being rested. He only started two games when Lowry was out.

                                In those two games, he shot 50% from the field, averaged 15+ PPG, and played about 33 MPG. But one was a blowout win and one was a blowout loss, so it's hard to get much from that tiny sample.
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